Marc-Alan Barnette
#4550
Here is the second part of the "TO DEMO OR NOT TO DEMO" BLOG.

#6. HAVE A STUDIO BUDGET. Knowing what your application is, knowing what you need in recording that will represent you best, is very important. You need to know HOW MUCH YOU HAVE TO SPEND. The studio experience can often have twists and turns and unexpected costs. So being UP FRONT and having a dialogue about what you are paying for in a recording studio helps to know what you can get.

Many studios are willing to make deals or packages. And I would be SLOW AND METHODICAL. Doing three songs at a time instead of six or a full album, might be good to give you time to get used to it and reflect. You don’t HAVE to do twelve or fifteen song albums anymore. Very few people outside of loyal fans listen to full albums. So doing fewer songs at a time and having repeated sessions help in this respect.



#7. SHOP STUDIOS. There are literally thousands of studios, individuals, multi-instrumentalists. All should be checked out. Different prices, different processes. Again, personally, to me, there is nothing like having four or five players who are very good, all playing at the same time. There is something about the electricity, the attitudes, and the MAGIC that great musicians do, that makes the recordings magic. And they can bring their own production qualities together. But that is not always possible or cost effective. So again, the application needs to be determined.



#8. DEVELOP A STUDIO RELATIONSHIP. This actually should come earlier in the process, but I am hoping people read all of these, and then make some decisions. Many, many, or even, most, people that own studios or recording equipment are songwriters themselves. So, developing great FRIENDSHIPS, as well as creative working relationships with people we work with is PARAMOUNT in a music career. Younger people needing experience, colleges, music trade schools can often offer some experimentation at a reasonable cost. Having co-writers who own recording equipment and know how to use it, can be of great benefit.



#9. BE AWARE. You never know where songs are going to end up. Much of social networking is one person sharing music with friends, family and their own social networks, which can lead to some interesting places. People do their own slideshows on their own web sites. which is a two-edged sword. We need to get music “out there”, but much of that requires that people use it for FREE. Getting paid is the really tough problem in the era of “free music.” That is a debate for another place. My concerns are that you are ALWAYS REPRESENTED WELL. VISIBILITY IS VIABILITY. The more you are seen and heard, the better your chances to advance your career.



#10. THINK VIDEO. Something we all have to be aware of now is the elements of VIDEO, involved with our music. Now, everything is a Cell phone video moment. YOU TUBE, FACEBOOK, are movers and shakers when it comes to public opinion. So having some VIDEO involved with a song, is a positive thing to promote the artist and the song. Again, with technology it doesn’t take hundreds of millions of dollars, huge production set ups, casts and crew, to do something. A decent camera set up, telling a simple story or seeing the singer sing the song, helps overall for an audience to appreciate who is singing. Or, even doing a ”slideshow” element with pictures, put to reflect the song, is interesting to look at. If people are thinking of doing a “single release” now, it is very important. So, keeping that in your budget costs are important.



Recording in all phases take thought, planning and investigation. The simplest form? LISTEN TO OTHER PEOPLE’S RECORDINGS. Ask friends who they use. With all the web sites, YOU TUBE, etc. there is no shortage of selections. And like everything when it comes to music. One person leads to another, which leads to another. Spending a little time, talking to people, should yield a lot of results.

Always one chance to make a bad first impression, so make sure you think what you do through. You never know where it’s going to end up. Good luck and good recording.



MAB









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Marc-Alan Barnette
#4551
MAB on WSM 650 Radio

For any of you who want to know what I do, what I sound like, etc. I am on WSM AM 650 radio this afternoon, Friday, March 24, at 4:15 PM EST.



I will be on DEVON ODAY'S FONTANEL FRIDAY radio show.



WSM is the home of the GRAND OLD OPRY and is also heard online and Archived.:



http://wsmonline.com/



I'll be discussing my career, philosophy of music and Nashville.



MAB


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Phillip (phil g.) Grigg
#4552

MAB, sorry I missed your show. I was busy and didn't check my email or this website until it was too late.


phil g.

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Marc-Alan Barnette
#4553
Hey Phil,

Good to hear from you. The funny thing is that I got this message AS I WAS DOING THE SHOW!! We were actually in our first commercial, so if you had been able to tune in the program, you would have heard most of it. No big deal. I just talked about things I do, and my perspective on the future of the music industry. Stuff you have all heard over here and frankly have seen yourself in your own life. Was a fun day so thanks for thinking of me. See you in July where you kick off the MAB birthday show. Of course if you suck, then you will be bringing it all down! So everybody's career, mine, Jimbeau, the New Crew, the club, the beer distributors, waitresses, bartenders, Uber and Lyft drivers, the entire economy of Nashville, the state of Tenn. The future of AMERICA is all resting upon you! 

Good luck!
MAB
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Phillip (phil g.) Grigg
#4554

Hey MAB! Yea, I hope I can live up to all that too! After all, I am going to use your name in vein and play at least two of the songs we wrote together. BUT, I don't think I'll have that much affect on the Nashville economy. I think all the streaming services have already destroyed that economy. At least for artists and songwriters.


There are three open mic's down here, one within a few miles of me. I just need to get more motivate and start playing all of them instead of just the one, twice a month.


Oh, the other thing I'll be doing on this trip is trash, er, PLAYING, Cathy's open mic at the Flora-Bama Monday night. I'm also planning on using Barbara's open mic at the Blue Bar Tuesday night, and Sam's Jams Wednesday, to get warmed up for Thursday night. Hoping to have a busy, fun trip!!


Speaking of "trashing", and since at least OD follows this thread, maybe we can have a party at our house one day while we're there? I mean, we're renting from a friend of yours, so I'm sure it will be alright. We'll behave!


philboy

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Marc-Alan Barnette
#4555
Yeah Phil, 

The economy is hanging on by a thread, so YOU are probably the final nail in the coffin, OR the thing that rescues it for good. Actually, for a town in the throes of the end of the world in music, we are kind of in the biggest growth boom in the town's history. You can't park anywhere, have to have five pairs of eyes to avoid running over or being run over by tourists, the cranes are everywhere you look and property values are through the roof. Pretty interesting downturn.

Of course, it has all kinds of interesting by products. Now, you know you are in Nashville, "when your UBER driver had "song of the year" two years ago.

MAB
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Phillip (phil g.) Grigg
#4556

Hey MAB, that brings up a question that other lurkers here might find interesting. I know that staff songwriters are (or at least used to be) actually paid a "draw" as a salary (and maybe some other front money such as demos?), BUT, before they get any royalties, all that front money gets paid back to the publisher/producer. So, my question is, are artists, even big names, even after they've "made it", paid similarly?


phil g.

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Marc-Alan Barnette
#4557
Phil,

I only have a few minutes, but the short answer is YES. It is part of the reasons it is so hard to even break even in the music industry. It costs approximately $4.5 MILLION dollars to launch a new project. And yes that all has to be paid back before the artist/writers or anyone is really paid back. Everything is based on SALES. That is why they have to have multiple income streams.

A staff writer may have had two or three publishing deals before they even get something that pays back money. And those will have to be paid back if the songs had anything to do with that publisher. For instance, if some publisher they signed with 5-6-7 or more years ago, still has publishing on that song, even though they moved on, that song will still have to be paid off years later.

My friend Paul Jefferson, just found out he was having to START Over again on a song, YOU'RE NOT MY GOD" that he wrote twenty years ago with Keith Urban. Kieth released it on an album a couple years ago, and Paul had to track down where the publishing was. The original company he was with had to sell out, so it had gone through a few more companies. And he has to start over again. 

Artists are the same thing. They owe so much money they usually will never pay that back. They have to have their "sophomore" albums (second) or even the Junior albums (third) with successful singles on them before they start to earn back their advances. 

The more you know about the music industry.

MAB
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Phillip (phil g.) Grigg
#4558

That sounds very depressing MAB! So, I suppose "entry level" (phrase used loosely) artists such as Chris Stapleton, Chris Janson, and probably even folks like Frankie Ballard, Bret Young and Jon Pardi are still way underwater in relation to what they owe back to their producers, and money they're bringing in?


phil g.

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Marc-Alan Barnette
#4559
Phil,

Possibly yes, and possibly no. There are some other things you have to keep in mind. If you remember my old saying "Visability is VIABILITY" you will remember that just because someone is not selling CD'S or RECORDINGS ,doesn't nessasarily mean they are NOT MAKING MONEY. If you see someone EVERYWHERE, (Chris Stapleton), on television, on benefits, on major tours, it means they are probably doing a lot of business in live and in merchandise. Major television shows can increase your fan and audience base by thousands.

With Frankie, you have to remember his strong fan base is through the Midwest. So he is a guy that can command $30-$40 a ticket himself. This is in 10,000-15,000 seat arenas and amphitheaters. A few of his shows were with Bob Seeger in Pontiac Silverdome. So you are looking at someone who could concievably be pulling in $30,000-$50,000 PER NIGHT. 
Also, you have to remember that Frankie is a guy who booked $25,000 private parties, BEFORE HIS RECORD DEAL.
Coupled with the fact that he had TWO multi multi millionaires willing to bankroll him before his deal and he might not owe as much to record companies.

Artists money is always about TOURING, personal appearances, and merchandise. Most artists who are really in the pocket make about 15% of their money from recording. They make 85% in touring and merchandise. Now those that are not strong in touring, they are going to have a harder climb. And you have to keep in mind ENDORSEMENTS. 
Someone like CARRIE UNDERWOOD will make more money from Hair care commercials, or the intro to Monday Night Football than probably all of their recordings.

Sturgill Simpson, was routinely selling out 5000 seat theaters, at $50 a ticket for the past 6 or 7 years, WITHOUT a record deal. Same with Ed Sheeran. You find those touring artists who might have been touring for years under the radar of mainstream radio, yet having a HUGE touring career, making literally millions of dollars a year, without major radio success. They are mostly NICHE market people. 

There are the ICONIC artists like John Prine, Allison Krause, Emilou Harris, Delbert McClinton, Bonnie Raitt, James Taylor, Carol King, who do HUGE concert business without major radio success. And of course there is the BIGGEST DOG OF ALL in that form of business, JIMMY BUFFETT who took one number ten song, MARGARITAVILLE, into a $2 BILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS.

Yes ,there are not that many people who can do that, but there are quite a few that are not as tied to record or radio success, and do huge business in other income streams.

And again, like everything, this is nothing new. There used to be "RADIO SONGS" and "CAREER SONGS." There might be an artist or a song that never really charted at the top of the charts, maybe hitting the top 20 or so, yet the artist has a career forever. They are called CULT FOLLOWINGS.

The truth is that Frankie could have never gotten a record deal and would have had a huge touring career, which is really all he ever wanted. "I just want to ride a bus and play music." was one of the first things he said to me. That is why when we started writing, we did almost all songs that would be great for live audiences. And he could lose his record deal tomorrow and with three number ones, could conceivably tour for the next 20 years. 

See why FAN BASE is the ultimate arbiter of an artist's success? That is why. If an artist establishes themselves as a touring force. they are going to do quite well. It is why when I once sat down with a Record producer, and he said "We don't consider recording success the same as live success." At the time I thought "Well, you better..." But I didn't say anything. 

But the fact is that if you are a strong live act ,you will have a career for long after your records stop selling. It is why Tony Bennett and Jerry Lee Lewis still have a career. And why Chuck Berry would go out pretty much until the end of his life. Sometimes it is sad. I had a guy last week who went to see Steven Stills of Crosby Still's Nash and Young, last week and said he was terrible, "waddling out on stage, and really being a shell of himself."

But usually if you have some strategic planning about you and not put your eggs into one basket, find a niche and always cater to your fans, you will have a career. Having recording and radio success is a big help. But not the end all. Ask pretty much any act in Texas.

MAB
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Marc-Alan Barnette
#4560
Phil,

It is one of the reasons, Pat Green, a HUGE Texas artist, turned down an extension of his major record deal. He had been doing about $600,000 a year playing almost exclusively in Texas and the West, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, etc. He got a record deal with a major company, Universal (I think), and released a single "WAVE ON WAVE." He watched his income due to expenses, start to dwindle away. So when his deal came up and they wanted to resign him, he turned them down saying "He couldn't take the pay cut."

There have always been artists that defy description. People that built huge cult followings, and fan base without radio. Randy Newman, would be an example as well as Leonard Cohen. They did other things, like film scoring for Randy, but were HUGE in their own circuits.

Now, there are people who are truly Internet stars, getting millions of streams and advertising revenue. There are people many will never hear of, but still do quite well.

On the songwriting front, you see some more interesting trends. Like artists, such as LITTLE BIG TOWN, and others cutting songs by OTHER ARTISTS. One of their most recent hits was written by Taylor Swift. The same for Hillary Scott, Kacey Musgraves, Chis Stapleton, Jamie Johnson, who got cuts BEFORE they got their record deal. Tells you a couple of things. First of all, that the only people publishers are interested in are ARTISTS. And that the new crop of writers are MUCH better than all the outside writers put together. So anyone thinking about those "outside cuts" and pitches, better think twice, and start trying to groom their own artists BEFORE those guys get signed.

Where have you heard that before?

MAB
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Phillip (phil g.) Grigg
#4561

Thanks for that response MAB! Great information! Now, hopefully some of the folks posting in the open mic here will read your words of wisdom! Wander if I could make it as a touring artist? Even at my (old) age? I DO have a "catchy" title; "Phil G and the G-Strings"!! Sure!? LOL!!!


phil g.

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OD OldDog
#4562

Hello MAB and Philboy,


 


MAB, I think your post was simply excellent explaining how the music business works.  It would probably make most amateurs like me wonder "why bother".  That is certainly a question everyone should ask themselves and if their only reason to want to be involved in music  was to get famous or make a ton of money off royalty checks, then it's best they quit now and concentrate on a career that will pay their bills and hopefully allow them to retire someday.


 


However; I'm not trying to suggest they quit enjoying music all together, that would be foolish.  I also realize your post was not meant for the basic amateur that may play a few songs for a family event; or even those that may be performing with a weekend bar band;  but more towards those that may want to follow their "Dream" of breaking into the music business some day as a career for them.


 


Awe Yes, there is that dreaded cliche' "follow your dream".   S.O.B.   That little phrase has caused many to make decisions based on their "dream" more than their "talent".   I also fell into that catagory once with a band I was in that played both cover tunes and wrote our own original music.  We obviously had the dream and we had talent; but we didn't have the SONGS.   Awe yes, the SONGS;  another hurddle that you have to over come that is much  more important than having all the musical talent you need.  That band I mentioned is how I went from a part time songwriter that rarely finished anything, to someone that truly wanted to learn how to write better songs.


 


This post wasn't meant to be about me, but I'm a very good example of how a dream can get the best of us and cause someone to want it so badly, we may make a blind decision in order to see where it may lead us.  Our band made a few trips to Nashville to meet with the Larry Butler group.  What some may not know, Larry Butler was a fine musician/songwriter and was the grammy award winning producer on the Kenny Rogers CD "The Gambler" (and a friend of MAB's).   In fact MAB has a song he once turned down for a new up coming artist to record and a favorite song of Larry's wife which she wanted her husband to have Kenny record someday.  I'll let MAB tell you that story.


 


Sadly the band I was involved with didn't have the songs that interested Larry's gourp and we were told to come back when we had better songs.  My point is; that dream to achieve will drive many of us to take measures most people would not even concider, even if we knew the odds were stacked up against us.  That rewarding feeling I got as a member of a band that performed for a responsive audience was greater than any big pay check I ever recieved regardless of the extra money from working so much over time.  However; all the cheers and applause from the audience didn't pay the bills like that big over time check did.  Ha!!!    Sadly we became a statistic and broke up because the time we put into it, put too much strain on our day jobs and especially our families.  Now a person can go on with their music, even though it may not pay the bills, but I guarantee you Mommy will not be happy.  When Mommy is not happy most musician/songwriters end up with life experiences that turn into "cry in your beer songs" that dominated Nashville many years ago.  Ha!!!


 


Okay; a joke I heard from a Nashville musician I struck up a conversation with while standing in the isle at a Home Depot.  We talked about music and Nashville when he explained he moved to town to become a studio musician but he had to find a job to pay the bills.  His joke was "What is the difference between a  musician and a large pizza"???  The Answer:  "The large pizza will feed a family of 4".  Ha!!! (good joke and true story).


 


But talented musicans like him will no doubt made a living, even if they have to perform part of the time while working a day job most of the time.  I would guess most bar band members have day jobs and play their music on weekends to fulfill their desire to perform music.  My experience as a bar band member was;  no band I ever played in lasted more than a couple of years because of the strain it put on families.  Most of the money we made was spent on trying to buy bigger and better equipment (mostly mics and sound equipment) that was the first thing sold off (for pennies on the dollar) after the band broke up.  So as it turned out, just when the equipment was paid for and we could take some extra money home, it was over and we would take a long break before another group of guys would put something else together; but then came buying bigger and better equipment again. 


 


But let me get back to the more serious artist's and songwriters MAB was reaching out to in his post.  We all know there is a very small amount of successful artist's that will ever make their fortune in music.  Beyond them, there may be a few thousand more that may make a living such as  band members (which are normally work for hire) or those involved in the business like studio people, A&R people, Publishers, Label people and all of them. Then concider the thousands of other's that don't have a deal but yet they make a living by touring or playing in the local areas, casino's or wherever they can land a gig. 


 


But what about the dreamers that show up in Nashville everyday who have chosen to follow their dreams by moving to a music city seeking their chance at the big time they have always dreamed about.   They are truly the ones who would benefit reading MAB's post the most.  Sure, they all have talent, some more than others (which are the ones MAB talks about trying to meet and write with before they make it big) but most will never go anywhere beyond playing some writers rounds and open mic nights.  It's a known fact the younger artist's new to town that have the total package (they sing great, have good stage presence, and have great looks; whether male or female) will get the attention of the better writers in town and will be invited to work with them, so they have a good chance of performing much better songs down the road.  The great singers with all the other qualities will have the best chance to work with the better songwriters who seek them out in order to work with them.   Much like MAB suggests we try to work with a local talent before they make it big, the former hit writers and better songwriters in Nashville are doing the same thing with the newer talent arriving in town.


 


So what happens to the average singer/songwriter???   Chances are they will learn the facts of life and the music business rather quickly and be back on a bus headed for home before long.  As MAB has said before "music isn't fair to everybody". 


 


So what about us "Living Room Writers" on songwriting sites like SongRamp and so many others on the internet.  Where is there room for all of us in the music business because we have a dream like all the others.  Well we too are the main audience that should be reading MAB's post and gathering information from what he wrote.  The fact is; there is not much room for us in the muic business at all.  So does that mean we should all quit and give up.  Not at all; but realize our chances of any success with our music is very limited if not nearly impossible.  However; remember me telling all of you how I felt a great sinsation while performing in a band for a receptive audience.  I'm sure most of you have experienced that same feeling when you perform your original songs for family, friends, or even a coffee shop or open mic night.  That  feeling of accomplishment may be the only reward most of us will ever receive but it can truly be enough to make us want to do it again and again. 


 


Then realize also there are thousands of kids turning 14, 15, 16 and older everyday with the same dream to become a performer so there will never be a shortage of dreamers out there.  There are also plenty of us folks turning middle aged and older every day also.  Most of us didn't follow a dream for music back when we were young; but we have discovered a new enthusiasm for music and a desire to be a part of it we allowed to lye dormant for many years. I read these type of stories on SongRamp and other sites all the time, and all of us have the opportunity to be creative and express ourselves with our music.  However; the same principles apply, some have more talent than others; yet we all want to be part of music  regardless of our musical abilities.  Those of us in this bracket are more realistic about our chances to write any songs that would ever be cut or become a hit; but then another term comes to play "What If".  Ha!!!   I hear that one all the time also and it is certainly true. But that "what if" factor causes many average writers to enter song contests, ask how to meet with Publishers, and even want to gherm a well known artist if they only could.


 


So were getting down to my main point.  Regardless of which group catagory we fall into; or the level of talent; it all comes down to the quality of our SONGS.  Period!!!   Write a poorly written song and you're going to get a poor response.  Write an average song and you're going to get an average response.  Write a great song and you're going to get a great response.  It all come down to the SONG.


 


Now please don't take my comments to think I consider myself a good songwriter.  I consider myself a decent songwriter but not even close to the really good songwriters out there.  Many of you reading along are decent (or better) songwriters as well; but perhaps we all fall into that "what if" catagory at times.  So what is the answer.  I truly don't think the answer is for us to think our songs have the potential of getting a cut with a major artist (although it did happen once or twice as I recall); but a cut with an indie artist is not out of the question.  I suggest we all continue writing our song to please our own creative desires, and only hope our songs will please our listening audience as well.  Once again, that may be our greatest achievement and result in our greatest reward.   Anything thing beyond that is certainly reason to celebrate.  And please realize I'm aware we have some really gifted talent on this site; but like MAB my focus is geared around those wanting to make their presense know in Nashville.  I realize also many could care less about Nashville so dis-regard my statements.


 


MAB, I apologize for my long post but I had half an 18 pack to get rid of before I begin my next attempt to straighten my dumb*ss out tomorrow.  I could have poured them down the drain but that seemed like such a terrible waste.  Everything I wrote may not make perfect sense but I did my best between my bouts with the hiccups. 


 


The main reason for my post was to explain we don't all have to become a hit songwriter and  major performing artist.  There is still room for our songs to be shared with fellow songwriters and a listening audience.  Just that we may not make any money from it; but there is still a huge reward if we consider our success in other ways.


 


OD  (hiccup)


 


 


 


       


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

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Marc-Alan Barnette
#4563
Wow,

I guess we're all talking over here again. Good. Hey OD, been missing those long posts. A few things:

First of all Phil, interestingly that you asked about going off and "making your fortune in music..." at your age. Funny you should say something about that, because as usually I HAPPEN to have personal experience that deals with just that.

I don't know if I told you, but a few years ago I started getting these royalty checks from Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, etc. I couldn't figure out where they were coming from because I had NOTHING going on in those countries. The video, and  movie rental for ANOTHER PAIR OF ACES, still gets some rentals over the years but fewer and farther between. I don't even think it is on DVD, and don't really know anything that has happened with a movie from nearly 30 years ago.
Then on one of the statements, I noticed a name. Ed Bentley. Ed. was a 69 year old retired Insurance business owner, who came to me after selling his insurance business. He had played rockabilly back in the late 50's and early 60's but had to quit to earn a living and have a "real job." He worked for many years, then retired and came to me to update his writing skills.

The first day we got together he handed me a sheet of paper with 60 titles on it. I looked down at it, then handed it back to him and said "Now show me one that is NOT NEGATIVE." He looked at it and had never realized that EVERY SINGLE TITLE was negative, self depressing, bitter, angry. Normal songwriter nonsense.

Over the next few days and subsequent trips, we wrote more songs, even a really hard one, which was about his granddaughter that had DIED at Childbirth. (Try to take on THAT SUBJECT AND GIVE IT A POSITIVE SPIN.) But we DID. And it greatly helped his family through a very tough grieving period.

Then he dissapeared and I didn't hear from him for years. Then I start getting these checks. They were on songs we had written that he put on CD's of his and he was PERFORMING in those countries. He got radio airplay. He was a ROCK star in Daneland! And like everything with him, about three weeks ago, HE POPS UP AT ONE OF MY COMMODORE SHOWS. He is now in his EIGHTIES, but still looks in the late sixties. He has boundless energy and travels and does his music. 

I know a LOT of people like this. Retired people, going through their "SECOND PHASE" of their careers. Teachers, scientists, doctors, lawyers, geologists, property managers, political scientists, pharmaceutical representatives, advertising salesmen, traveling educators, plumbers, contractors, electricians, Millwrites (whatever the hell that is!) computer programmers, you name it, I have probably worked with someone in that vocation.  

They continue their lives. They do music. The sell CD's and do web sites. They build fans. Many of them have fans with MONEY. They do private parties. They play winery's, brewerys, bars, special events.

I have always said that what YOU need to be doing is building your own reputation in YOUR area. You have three writers nights around there. They might not be the "Nashville" type of night, but they bring in POTENTIAL ARTISTS! You have written with one. RiDawn. And found out all the things about writing with them. Finding subjects they will sing. Involving them. Jumping through hoops to help them get their career going. And then dealing with the other things they go through. RiDawn is pretty much out of the  business due to two older parents who are in the stages of Dementia and Alzheimers and a new grand child she is having to pretty much raise. And she ALWAYS gets excited about things, for a while and then drops out. 

And that is it OD. What about all these people that move to Nashville? About 98% will be done, gone, quit, finished within 2-3 years. They burn out. Our little sweetie, Megan Markle and her sweet Mom, Karen. They are still involved, more or less. But when I did a show with her last July in Birmingham she had not written a song in over a year, and had done very little in music. She was getting ready to go to college and realized music might be a great high school college thing, but it probably wouldn't go past that.

This is most people who do this. The few that continue on, will find other things to do, stay in one way or another and get a reality check. One out of a few million will make it up a little higher levels, some will end up like Megan Linsey, on the Voice or some contest show and one out of probably ten million or more will grab a break like Frankie. 

And there will be a LOT of people who find their own niche. They might not ever be on the charts. Might just have their own friends and fans and do their little things around their home towns and regions. And that will be just fine. 

If people want to learn to do this, they will. Most quit long before. Everyone has to find their own way.

Good to hear from you both.
MAB
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Larry Killam
#4564
Hey everyone I'm still lurking around always checking open mic and what may be going round.Not much happening in Writers Room these days but like O.D says maybe we need some teenagers to find this place to stir up new blood.

WinkLARRYBOYWink
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Marc-Alan Barnette
#4565
Hey Larry (Yrall),

No, actually what we need are just people to get involved again. I know everyone has plenty going on in their lives. I do too. But we have this forum and this site has been very good to so many of us over the years. So it is really there for us to participate in and get it to live up to our expectations. I have always felt that with activity, you can attract people over. But someone has to actually BE THERE to make that happen. 

I greatly appreciate your commenting and participating. Also, Phil, and OD and I am sure there are many "lurkers": out there that would chime in  if there was a reason for them to do so. I hope more will follow your example.

WE have had a lot of dormancy in this thread for a while simply because it seemed no one was interested. But I do check it and try to comment when there is some form of subject going on I can contribute to. It might be a nice idea for you to tell folks what you have been up to. How your health is, etc.  I know you have gone through some rough patches and it is good to hear you are doing well.

Unfortunately we can't say that for John Westwood or Ott Luck, but through this thread I got to know both of them over the years. So I considered that we were a positive effect in both their lives. I know we are better off for having known them.

Thank you for coming around and I hope to hear more from you when you can.

Take care,
MAB
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Phillip (phil g.) Grigg
#4566

MAB, interesting story about Ed Bentley. Two of the three open mic's around here do pay their PRO license fees. Maybe I should join a PRO and register the 3 songs we have written (along with ALL the co-writers). I DO play those songs out once in a while. I could always send in my set list to my PRO when I do play them at one of those establishments. Who knows, some day you could become a dollar-air off me and those three songs! Oh well, such are the dreams of dreamers! LOL


phil g.

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Marc-Alan Barnette
#4567
                                                                         VISIBILITY IS VIABILITY

What Phil talks about here is a pretty good subject for this thread. I talk here and on other forums about all things music, and questions always come up with people, "HOW DO I MAKE MONEY AT THIS?" Invariably, people want to know where is the money. In far too many things music, IT'S NOT THERE. We are entering our second decade, since the end of the 90's, where most music went FREE. As people, most notably college students, figured out ways to download whatever they wanted to, when it got totally easy to put things immediately on I-phones and I pods, and having limitless choices in music selections, for free, there was just nothing to be done. It was accepted by the general public and we pretty much have to understand that. It is up to US to decide how to deal with it.

I mostly toss OUT the notion and discussion of money in music with people I council, mostly because they are NOT READY FOR IT in the first place. Most people are happy amateurs. Young people that are going for "something shiny" that sounds fun and good. They write songs (at least their version of songs), do camera phone videos for YOU TUBE, and FACEBOOK and put endless things featuring themselves OUT THERE. Unfortunately, most of them never stop to find out if what they have is WORTH being out there. 
Most really are not.

In Nashville, there are ALWAYS new people coming in. About 100 a DAY are moving here with some design on a music career. Almost all are going to be SORELY dissapointed, burned out, and gone, completely before 6 months or two years. Most go on with their lives, go to college, fall in love, get married. have kids (or the other way around) and lose their fascination with music when they discover the other word involved in that, BUSINESS.

There are always showcases of some kind. Last night I attended one that a friend of mine who is an old hand in the music business as a producer, writer, guitar player. He was showing off a new girl who he has worked with for a year. She is 18, very cute and one of the WEAKEST writer/performers I have seen. Decent voice, ABSOLUTELY FORGETTABLE SONGS, extroidinarily weak performance, pretty much everything you would NOT want to see in an artist. And she was preceeded by ANOTHER group of four people, two girls and their guy back up players that were ALMOST as weak. Very sad actually. My friend will be asking me for a report and I hate to know what I have to tell  him.

Do I say QUIT? Nope. She had a sweet voice, and is a very sweet girl, but she has a TON of work to do to even get to a passable point. If they want to hire me to help, I can do that but she is a long way away from that. He already feels she is a year away, I'd say a lot farther than that.

Now, at the same time I worked with a girl Friday who was 18, EXTRODINARILY TALENTED, very good songs, as a matter of fact the ONLY one I think I have ever seen that I couldn't just destroy the songs, the performance or much of anything about her. I was VERY IMPRESSED and I DON'T IMPRESS EASY. but even she has a long trip. She is moving to Nashville to go to school and her parents, who I spent time with also, are very down to earth, and like everything, just going to have to see. There are also people who come into this who are VERY TALENTED, but you don't know how long they will keep going. We'll see.

When it comes to making money, they are going to have to find ways in their careers. Some will get those record deals. Some will go those extra miles. But they'll have to do a LOT of things themselves. And that is the secret to music business.

There are always people at the top of the pyramid. Those hit artists, songs and writers that will be everywhere. As I have described, there are always the people that find their way to the top. But there are also people who do this who might not have the radio hits, might not be on top of the charts, but do well on their own. Much like those "character actors" you see in every television show and movie and know their faces but not their names. There will be those.

There are always people who create their own pathway.  People who sell their own product, are on their own web sites. Ignite among the public. They sell their own merchandise. Interesting little self contained packages. I've seen a lot of those in my life. They have their own little niches. House concerts, like the one I am playing this weekend in East Tn. are a viable option. People who do charity work like my friend Scott Southworth. He makes deals with Meals on Wheels and gives a good deal of money to that charity. It gives him an  in with clubs and venues all over the US when he travels with his "other job", a sales job that takes him all over. He will do his sales route during the day, and set up a performing venue at night. He sells some CD's and gets known. Then he will go back at a later date.

It's led him to getting press, a recent fold out in COUNTRY MUSIC WEEKLY magazine and a lot of good will. And he is a REALLY good performer and writer. He finds a way. Some, like my friend Ed Bentley find their own avenues and create their own marketplace. 
I attended a GLOBAL SONGWRITING conference meeting the other night where Sheree Spotore's gave a great presentation on people making money from indie cuts, liscencing some songs and leasing masters. They were great ideas and Global is one of those organizations like MUSIC STARTS HERE and NSAI that I suggest people really wanting to do this consult. 

There are ways. But you have to go find them. And the constant search for it is always a great thing.

Good luck,
MAB

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Phillip (phil g.) Grigg
#4568

BE PREPARED!! Advice from MAB.


Well, I went to my usual open mic at Loosey's last night. And, as I always do, I had decided on 3 songs and had been practicing them for about 2 weeks. Now, along with those 3, I have several other songs I will also go through at home. Having those extra songs ready to go also, sure paid off last night. Two of the 3 songs I had planned on playing were kind of folksy. Not ballads, but not "rockers" either. I was going on around 9. At 8, when the open mic started, there weren't that many folks in the bar yet, and it was relatively quiet. BUT, by 8:30, it was a true bar scene, and you could barely hear the performers over the very loud crowd. So, on the spot I decided to change up my set. I led out with a drinking song, followed by a working for a living song, and finished with my beach song. All three upbeat with a more bold delivery. So, I was able to get louder than the crowd. At least I was heard! And, looking around at the crowd, appeared to be getting a little attention.


THANKS MAB for GREAT advice!!!


phil g.


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Marc-Alan Barnette
#4569
Well, well, well. YOU ARE FINALLY LEARNING!!!! Congratulations! You are are doing well, young one.

YOU ARE NOT A JEDI YET!!!!!

Good job!
MAB
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Kevin Emmrich
#4570
Hey look -- new conversations!! Well here's a new up and coming country artist. Sort of old school, but maybe that is coming back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bfPwtUTP4k
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Marc-Alan Barnette
#4571
Wow Kevin,

I love that new sound there! Yes, we have some new conversations going on. Isn't that amazing how that happens. Glad you popped over here. Nice to hear people are still alive. I have always said that as long as other people are contributing, I'll be around. But if it only descends to "Likes" and other superficial things, I can find other things to do with my time and efforts. 
Glad to see you and thanks for the new discovery. Think he'll go far. Especially with all the "Evil Clowns" that are all over the place. It's find of funny to me. I believe CLOWNS are about to go the way of the RINGLING BROTHERS CIRCUS. It's funny how they are all being branded "EVIL" now and people who have been clowns all their lives are now complaining they can't get work, are only scaring people. Steven King is coming out with a new movie that brings back his evil Pennywise the clown" from "IT." Final nail in the coffin.

Sometimes when history and public opinion changes around you, you best find a different lively hood. And it's easy to see how this happened. Back in the 1800's into the early and mid 1900's, Clowns were huge because they WERE comedy. They were the entertainment for circuses, Vaudville, etc. Even into the 50's and 60's. Then some things happened. All those kids in the 40's and 50's that went to circuses and were SCARED by clowns (I was one of them) grew up and became writers, actors, directors, musicians, etc. And those "Evil" clowns" started to pop up in horror movies and other things in the 70's and 80's, 

There were serial killers like John Wayne Gacy and others who raped, tortured, robbed banks, etc. and could get away with it behind the masks and clown make up.  So the image of the clown started dying and being destroyed about then. After hundreds of horror movies, TV shows, and the like, now the Internet is filled with "Evil Clowns being spotted all over and luring Children into woods. Don't know how much is true, I think it's all a bunch of idiots pulling off stunts for the Internet but I'll tell you, anyone trying to be a clown in this day and age, is....well a CLOWN. Better look for a new line of work.

Just like PETA has done away with Circuses, and the way we treat animals is changing, Clowns are the next to go. Just outlived their day.

It's funny how trends will do that. And how some things that are innocent can be TOTALLY changed for the bad. It is in many things. In the ate 1800's into the 1900's, a very popular mustache was called the "TOOTHBRUSH MUSTACHE." It was so popular a very successful (former CLOWN) named CHARLIE CHAPLIN, made it famous in the movies. It was that little black thing over a lip that looked like a caterpiller. A lot of men wore them, expecially when Chaplin came out with "The Little Tramp."

That all changed about 1936, when this little man out of Germany named Adolf Hitler wore one and tried to take over the world, plunging us into WORLD WAR II. From then on, it was not so popular.

Trends can do that. What goes up, must come down.

Enjoyed the "Clown listen." Hope he doesn't quit his day job. LOL!

MAB
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Kevin Emmrich
#4572
Ha, ha -- you are probably right, I hope he is making his money before it all passes by.  This video with the postmodern jukebox has over 18 million views! -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBmCJEehYtU

Looking forward to the july visit!
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Marc-Alan Barnette
#4573
Hello everyone,

Just wanted to drop by, say hello and hope everyone is doing okay. Still doing much of the same in Nashville and am always around if anyone needs me.

Justin, Phil, Kevin and OD are planning a trip here in July for my annual birthday show and to hang around the town. 

A note to Justin, Phil and Kevin.
You will be playing on the show at Bobby's Idle Hour on Thursday the 20th. Since you are all here a day or so before, I would suggest you listen to each other's songs, see if there is anything you can add to each other's songs. Harmony, different instruments, etc. 

BUT BE AWARE
That sometimes if you are new to this, it can make things MORE DIFFICULT for each other, so if you go through it and find it harder, then it might be best to STAY off of it. 

A way those of us who do this regularly do, is LISTEN to a verse and a chorus of a song, even those we don't know, and see how it DEVELOPS. Then we might add some LIGHT (and I stress that) accompinement. Mostly, We try to stay out of the way. Like the Hippocratic oath for Doctors, FIRST DO NO HARM!!!!

So get together when you get here, sit around and listen to each other. If you can help, do, if not DON'T.

MAB

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Phillip (phil g.) Grigg
#4574

Great advice MAB! I personally don't even try to "help". I don't harmonize that well because I never have practiced it. And I don't play any kind of simple guitar to join in either. Like you said, the first responsibility of a stage sharing writer is, "DO NO HARM!"


Brings up a BAD story. At the Frank Brown festival last year, Don put me on stage with another amateur and one of the hit writers that had come down. The other amateur was on one end, I was in the middle, and the pro was on the other end. I told the pro if he didn't mind, I would let the other writer go first, then me, then he could close out the set. I thought that would be respectful? When it came my turn, I started my song, and all of a sudden I was hearing these really terrible notes being played! I was like, "WOW, am I really playing that bad?" Totally messed me up. So, I finished and the pro began. Then I heard those same terrible notes again! Turns out the other amateur was filling in with his own made up licks! The pro and I looked over at him and kind of shook our heads like, "No, just be quiet". He finally got the message, but not until after the damage was done. I apologized to the pro afterwards. Then, I was talking to some other friends and they said, "Yes, he was doing that while you were playing too!" I guess some people just like to show off, even if it makes them look like an idiot!


phil g.

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