OD OldDog

Philboy, good to see you back on the SongRamp site.  I often give you credit for keeping this thread alive when it slowed down a little bit in the past. 

Hey, about the former Broken Spoke.  It was my understanding it closed down years ago due to a major kitchen fire.  I can't imagine that wouldn't require some serious remodeling but I have no idea of the damage back then.  I just can't imagine they could apply some new paint, hang some new curtains, and a new sign out front  but I don't know.

A big question also seems to be whether it becomes just a bar or a songwriters hangout when they get it back opened. I guess time will tell.

Hey, I have to kid you because I know you pretty well.  I can't help but to tease you about you making a 7 1/2 hour drive to the Gulf Shores to get a free $15 dollar dinner.  Ha!!!   I love to tell that story about you but I realize you really go out of your way to participate in their activities as you always do every year when you volunteer to help out during the FB festival. Believe me, you are a better man than this lazy old guy.

About your songs and how similar songs have come out since you wrote yours.  Another lesson MAB speaks of and it happens to all of us.  In fact; MAB tells the story of having a song "I Wish" (or something like that) that he played on stage during a round  with Jeffery Steele but song idea's come to everyone and our's may not be the one that ends up getting the cut.  Hey, it's quite an honor just to be thinking along the same lines to write a song similar to the Pro's.

Now go get your junk room cleaned out and get that gym set up so you can stay in shape to help this old guy get off the couch at FB and help get me in and out of the car.  Ha!!!

Hey, where's KevMo???   He's probably working on his new cookbook before his Fawn challenge starts up soon.

OD


 


  

Marc-Alan  Barnette
Hey Folks,

Watching the playoffs and checking my emails, and some of YOU are actually commenting here. Very good.

Yes, OD, and Phil, the BROKEN SPOKE WON'T be back. The people who bought that place HATED writers, and were not really sold on music at all. It was not really a "downtown" destination, with lots of tourists, kind of place. People coming to Nashville that are staying there, all go to downtown Nashville and don't hang around to hear music there. And as far as a writers night, those are notorious money losers, since the majority of songwriters are water and tea drinkers. Can't support a bar or resturant. The Ramada, which is where that place is located, is usually just a "stop over" right outside of town for truckers or people that are on their way somewhere else, to make it through Nashville, be tired, and stop for the night. The bar business was always spotty at best and the area around that place is, shall we say, not the best in town. So no, that one's best days are long behind it. 

And the new lifeblood of Nashville music, the younger people, are not coming in that direction, North of the City. The present and future lie South, in Brentwood and Franklin areas or East, in East Nashville, Five points, etc. They are not coming North. The "Nashville expansion" of the North areas, Hendersonville, Goodlettesville, was really what happened in the 1970's with people like Conway Twitty and Johnny Cash. Just not "the place" to be any more.

OD, the vast majority of my clients are "one time and out" people. If I do my job correctly, they know a ton of people and expand their own circles and so they don't really need me as much, or so they think. I show a side of Nashville that is very real, and most people realizing the high level they have to be able to write and perform at, either quit or get a realistic approach to what they are doing. I do have a few repeat people, my West Virginia School teacher, Dave Minninburg, just texted me a few minutes ago to say he will be coming back in two weeks. And Rob Marquisee, my 61 year old from South Fla. is going to be back in two weeks as well. He is FIRED up again, as he was in San Fransisco, at a music store, and started playing songs we had written for the staff and customers. They got very excited and claimed he was a star! LOL! He has a big imagination and some pretty deep pockets, so he won't quit any time soon as long as he can keep from buying guitars every other day.

Younger clients, are still there, worked with one this past week. She was in her 40's but looked in her late 20's, very beautiful, and really good voice. She and her husband were from Arizona and have a pretty solid career out there in Country and Christian music. Wrote one song with her and got her to play at Bobby's and we'll see if she comes back.
Most of the young one's like Megan Markle, sort of fade out and get into college or other things in life, and some, like Breezy Love, are just starting high school. There are always new ones coming in, and pretty much every time I go out there are others reaching out to me. So it is never boring.

My first job in working with anyone is to turn a mirror on them. Most of the time it is "WHERE WOULD YOU SEE THIS FITTING IN?" What Radio format would this come under? You see, most of them are "square pegs in round holes" they really don't have a genre designation. Sort of rock, sort of pop, sort of folk, the older people do sound dated, and then the subject matter almost always leans to the negative. They NEVER think of it as negative until you get them to actually look at what they are doing. Then pretty quickly they see it.

Most of all what we are in is the "FACEBOOK" generation. People are able to write what they want, how they want, and put it on the Internet. But there is rarely anyone to give them a "reality check." I was struck by an interview with Mike Rowe, the "Dirty Jobs" guy. He said it was "Amazing to watch these people auditioning for American Idol or the Voice, getting up and singing a few notes, and then being told 'NEXT...' and having to leave, always in tears, and their parents in the next room crying as well. They've never had anyone tell them that they CAN'T SING."

In my opinion there is going to be a LOT of that in the future. More and more people that THINK  they know  it all and are infallible. Then they will hit the brick walls of reality. You have seen a lot of them over the past few months, They are the ones crying in little balls in colleges, on streets, protesting, going insane, needing "safe spaces", crayons and colloring books. You know. The "ENTITLED." No patience, no reality, no abilities.

Gonna be fun.

MAB
Marc-Alan  Barnette
The "Life passes so fast" is one that has been around pretty much since songs were written. "It was a very good year" by Frank Sinatra, and "Don't Blink" by Kenny Chesney are just a couple of the millions of examples. Phil, a few years back, I was working with a guy named "Ed Bentley, and Jim (somebody whose last name I don't even remember.) There was this commercial on television that had a bunch of different senarios in different commercials but it was all about "LIFE COMES AT YOU FAST" where the character would start out as a little kid, and then a giant puff of smoke and they turned into some old guy. A bunch of really funny ones, and Ed wanted to write that one. We did, and it was a TREMENDOUSLY funny song. But like everything, when there is a commercial out about something, you start to hear that same idea written a hundred different ways. As soon as you write one, you will hear it a million times.

The "My Wish" thing was pretty funny. I wrote it by myself as a closing song for my workshops:

"My Wish for you is Faith
My Wish for you is Hope
When life can bring you down
There's a place that you can go
Always try to give a smile, a laugh, a touch, a rose
There's someone just like me, who loves you
And I just thought you ought to know."

Was a very sweet song, and I really liked it. Even recorded it with an acoustic guitar and got a friend of mine to do a "string section" comprised of him doing four cello parts. One of my favorite recorded tracks and the only one I had done like that. I closed with it on every show for 8 years. And yes, there were about three or four shows that myself, Jimbeau and Jeffery Steele played together on. Always ended with it. And was one of my most requested songs. Did it on my "NEXT BIG THING" Cd.

Then one day I started getting congratulations through emails, and phone calls on my "New Rascal Flatts cut." I wasn't aware that I HAD a new Rascal Flatts cut as I had not been with my publisher for years and had never pitched that particular song. Then, one day while driving I HEARD the latest Rascal Flatts cut, "MY WISH" which sounded suspiciously very similar. Had a descending scale melody like mine, was about the same tempo, and actually in the same key. But it was totally different aside from a few similarities. And it was written by Jeffery and Steve Robson, who I also knew. 

There was NO WAY they had infringed on anything, any more than I was the first one to ever have the title "MY WISH."
We just all write similar things. Part of the business. But since it was a big hit and I didn't want to seem like I was following the leader, I had to find another song. I did.

That one was called TABLES AND CHAIRS. And THAT ONE is the MOST POPULAR SONG I HAVE NOW.

You just WRITE MORE SONGS. If you can be stopped because of one of your songs ending somewhere else and that is your only idea, you are not much of a writer. Get used to it. It'll happen a lot.

MAB
OD OldDog

MAB, in reference to the clients you have been working with; I can't help but feel they were really lucky to have met you.  Even if they will never stick with it to improve and move on to the next level or not; at least they have valid information to concider beyond just their desires and some families comments.

Mercy, I don't know if everyone realizes how valuable your service is.  You tell it like it is and don't sugar coat anything. Oh, you don't tell anyone what they want to hear just for the sake to drag them along as a client.  When they end their first Tour with you they have to decide if they want to do the work necessary to fulfill their dreams and pursue trying to become either a performing artist or a much better songwriter. 

S.O.B.  I can't express how valuable that is to everyone because even if your truth about reality in the music business causes them to give up and quit, you have saved them a ton of money and a lot of time making mistakes until they figured it out on their own.

I know I often come across to some as bragging on your teaching service too much and sounding like I have some sort of "Bromance" going on with you; but I only approach it as someone that knows exactly how people get caught up in their dreams when there talents aren't there; and in some cases never will be.  To me, once they realize that if they choose to continue spending time and money to get better at performing or songwriting, that is fine.  At least they know not to spend their sole efforts on a dream that will never pay off. 

In my case, I knew I didn't have the skills and talent to become a performer but I thought maybe I could learn how to become a Nashville songwriter.  Once you helped me realize I needed a lot of work (which I wasn't willing to do) I was happy to work you with just to become a better songwriter.  That's all you promised me and that's exactly what I was able to achieve.

Anyway, it sounds like there will be a constant flow of people wanting to fulfill their dream, they are lucky if they find you to help them reach that level or be able to accept just becoming better than they were before meeting you.  Most may be tempted to fall prey to scrupulous people that will take their money and encourage them to continue knowing they don't have a chance in hell.   I would probably be one of those scrupulous people.  Ha!!!

OD


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

Phillip (phil g.) Grigg

Sorry to take so long to reply. Hey OD, you forgot; It's a 7 1/2 hr. drive AND $150, to get a free $15 dinner! But remember, it's not about the drive or the money or the free dinner; It's about RELATIONSHIPS. I do have several friends over there, and this "free dinner" gives me a reason to go visit.


Oh, and by the way, how much money (and driving time) did you (we) spend last July just to get a small piece of MAB's birthday cake? It wasn't really about the cake at all now, was it?


Speaking of song ideas, my wife loves chick flicks. This past holiday season we must have watched dozens of them. And every one of them has the same theme; Boy/girl gets girl/boy, loses girl/boy, gets girl/boy back. Just different visuals and story line on how it happens. BUT, I've never heard that in a song.


V1:  Boy gets girl

C:   That's how love goes

V2:  Boy loses girl

C:   That's how love goes

B:    Boy gets girl back, lives happily ever after

C:   That's how love goes


NOT that the hook would be "that's how love goes", but that emotion.


phil g.

Marc-Alan  Barnette
How about "THAT'S THE WAY LOVE GOES?" I loved that one by Merle Haggard. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhaju2pwrJg

That subject has been done a lot, but that's the challenge of writing. Always trying to find a different way.

MAB
Phillip (phil g.) Grigg

Yes MAB, I remember that song. It was a great song then, and still is today. BUT, it doesn't follow the story line I proposed. The story line I'm thinking of is a 3.5 minute chick flick song. They meet, they break up, then they get back together. All in one song. But the chorus needs to be generic enough to support all three situations. Think of your song, "Waitin' On Hank", and how the chorus supported all 3 situations.


phil g.

Marc-Alan  Barnette
Phil,

The one thing I can assure you about songwriting. Just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it hasn't been done. Actually I've heard that story line dozens of times and even wrote it myself about eight years ago in a song  called "SECOND TIME AROUND." It was based upon two friends of mine from Birmingham, Gordon and Margaret Anne Rickles, who were married for 28 years, divorced for ten, then have been DATING back together for the past 20 years. I was explaining to Jules Bloeth, one of our former members here, from Atlanta, a way to get away from "writers block." I told her to drive around and find business signs or billboard slogans to spur her imagination. To show her how, I did it myself. 
Down on the way to Gulf Shores on 59, near the beach at all those outlet stores, is a store called "Second time around". It is a consignment furniture store where people redecorating their condos sell their old furniture. "Second time around..." get it? I wrote the song based on that, then had one of my many computer failures and lost it. But I did write it. Was a good exercise, but limited appeal, so I never went any further with it.

The idea of boy meets, girl, loses girl, gets back together, etc. had been done many times and some had been semi hits, although I can't remember any particular song now, just growing up hearing that story line. Was really big in the 70's. The main reason you haven't heard it in many years, maybe 20 or 30, is basically WOMEN EMPOWERMENT.

 When women started getting more and more a sense of themselves instead of some eye candy for a men, female artists were more about MOVING ON in a relationship and GETTING OVER the previous guy. They were WOMEN, HEAR THEM ROAR!!! The women would basically go, "You go sister, dump that jerk!" Guys, who would do it ended up sounding whiny wanting an old flame back and they were headed more for the hook up, than moaning for their lost woman or even trying to get her back. It's what I term "DDSS" or "Depressed Dude Singer Syndrome". Again, it is done, but just not that much any more because people's ideas of relationships have changed.

The other reason  is that it is difficult to do. In order to have the "break up" you have to have a reason for the break up. That means there is an aggrieved party. So someone has to look bad. Then, getting them back together takes more details, and it is just harder to do in a three and a half minute song. That is why the main place you see it are in the one and a half hour movie, particularly the "HALLMARK channel" or Disney movies. As you noticed, you saw several of them. Also sitcoms and half hour television (actually 22 minutes and commercials) will do them often, as a plot device seems like someone is ALWAYS breaking up and getting back together. Again, easier to do that and show it during a twenty two minute or one and a half hour movie. Not so easy in a 3 minute song.

But that doesn't mean YOU SHOULDN'T TRY IT. That is the point of songwriting. The challenge to say the same thing we have heard or seen OR LIVED a billion times, in a fresh and interesting way. As usual, the Devil is in the details. 

But the overall thing to remember is that with BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of songs written, if YOU can think of it, a lot of other people can too, and as you see it in other formats, it has been done. Any life experience of real people are going to be done often, whether we personally see it or not. That is one of the things people always try to get me with when they sit down. "I bet you've never heard this..." And I always have. And can usually show them where it was written. Most of the time BEFORE THEY WERE BORN. So just understand it is out there. 
Don't let that stop YOU from trying to come up with a new version. Someone will always do that.

MAB
Phillip (phil g.) Grigg

Well MAB, here's the reality. First, I'm pretty much an OD these days in that I just don't have the energy to write much any more. And, yes I agree it would be very difficult to tell that story in 3.5-4 minutes. BUT, if it were easy, everybody would be doing it! Oh wait! Everybody IS doing it!! LOL!! At least in their minds!


phil g.

Marc-Alan  Barnette
Phil,

Yes I do understand the "I'm too tired to write anymore, do any of this...." yeah. I know that one. I reached the same point 17 years ago when one publishing company had to let me go due to not being able to make any money at it, and then another one reniged on signing me due to a wayward attorney stabbing me in the back and cutting me out of a second deal. So yeah, I get the burnout factor. I'm going on my second DECADE of it.

The only thing I do is respond to posts that people put up. The point of "I've never heard this in a song..." comes up all the time. I try to give another side of that perspective, some examples and then the reasons WHY you might not have heard that particular idea. 

At any rate, you can decide if you want  or don't want to try something. It is an interesting challenge and can be done. Whether it is actually viable is another matter, which is one thing that happens in writing. We many times think we have had some unique idea, some new melodic pattern that we have NEVER heard, then someone goes to an average writers night and hears the same thing written over and over, OR goes to some pro writer and hear THEM do it in a way we never thought of making us throw up our hands and go "OKAY, I'M DONE!!!!" Happens all the time. That is what all of this is about. Whether you decide to take the challenge, keep going or just observe from a "safe distance" still is the same. 

I'm currently in Gatlinburg again for another songwriter seminar after a show last night. Scott Southworth, Karen Reynolds and I will hear pretty much the same songs over and over and try to give some direction. Some will have something THEY HAVE NEVER HEARD BEFORE. We'll have to inject some REALITY ourselves. 

But I do get where you are coming from and support your decision to go on strike and deprive all the poor, poor retired people of your talents songs and "Philness" that they have come to depend on for bringing a small ray of sunshine into their other wise decrepit lives and as they slink off into the darkness, to go eat worms and bugs, because the "PHILBOY": has let them down to be depressed in their last moments, I do understand. Many of us, take that route, to let down their fellow human beings with their "I'm too tired to write anymore" retoric. We've seen it before.
When the Beach Boys DIDN'T go out of their way to help Charles Manson, look what happened.

I just hope none of your fans, the senior citizens, don't finally snap due to your inattention to their needs and do something terrible like knock over a bakery or geritol stand. But don't worry about it.

MAB
Phillip (phil g.) Grigg

MAB, I never said I was going to stop torturing the senior citizens with my stupid jokes and already written challenging songs with m sheer vocals and scratchy guitar playing! Heavens no!! As a matter of fact, I'll be in Perdido Key at the Flora-Bama Monday for Cathy's open mic. Folks are just going to have o get used to hearing the same old songs over and over. Except for an occasional cover tune I may learn. Like, I just played Jimbeau's, "Party Crowd" last month at a Gainesville open mic.


Now I got a different question for you. Any idea what has happened to your protégée Frankie Ballard? I haven't heard anything new from him a quite a while now.


Hey, also, I followed your FB link to listen to Christine Parri. Loved the song. She CAN SING!! And, she looks and sounds familiar. Have I met/seen her somewhere before? Please share that link here so others that aren't on FB can hear this girl. I'm sure you're very proud of her.


phil g.

OD OldDog

Philboy writes in previous post.... (quote)


#993300Oh, and by the way, how much money (and driving time) did you (we) spend last July just to get a small piece of MAB's birthday cake? It wasn't really about the cake at all now, was it?


 


 


WHAT???    MAB SAVED YOU A PIECE OF HIS BIRTHDAY CAKE???  I DIDN'T GET ANY!!!  S.O.B.


 


Now I know which old guy MAB "Loves Best".  Ha!!!


 


OD


 


 

Phillip (phil g.) Grigg

I am SO sorry OD!! I promise this July I will make sure you get 2 pieces of cake. I'll call Debbie in the near future to reserve your two pieces! "The check's in the mail"!!


phil g.

Marc-Alan  Barnette
Hey Phil and Od, you guys play nice.

Phil I don't really hear that much from Frankie as my work with him pretty much ended when he signed his deal. My job was to get him ready FOR his deal. He had his third number one last year and to be 100% honest, I have not paid much attention as I am always on to the next song, the next client, etc and don't really keep up with the past.

I do get things on Facebook from time to time by fans of his. Eddie Minyard here, posted something on Facebook w9th Frankie and some others playing "Tush" with Billy Gibbons (ZZ Top) on the Jimmy Fallon show from last week I believe. Again, I didn't actually open it and look at it. Like much on Facebook, it tends to be up there and gone before I can get to it. 

There might be reasons you don't hear from Frankie. They have never really concentrated on that area. They concentrate more on the Midwest and upper East Coast. Artists will tour certain areas due to their fan base and requirements and may never get to others. Same might be with radio. Radio doesn't always play ALL the top artists. So it just might not be in your area. I believe last year right before the Frank Brown festival he played the Amphitheater there in Orange Beach at the WHARF. That is about 15,000 people so I guess he does okay some places.

Chirstine is one of the five people I call my "Six (now seven) year club." They are Allen Shervelle, Bonnie Lee Panda, Alice Bargeron, Jason Gregory and Christine. They all moved to town or started working with me seven years ago. For a while we did a lot of shows together, writing together, and Recording. They were part of my tours in one way or another, Allen and Bonnie started coming from out of town before they moved here and then when they moved here I work with both of them. Alice had moved here and I knew her from 30 years before in my rock career in Birmingham and I hooked the three of them up because she could sing harmony with them. Jason came here from San Diego and we added him, although he got very busy very quickly. And Christine, hosted several writers nights we all played on.

She was a great part of my tour for Australians. When I would get Aussies' here, I would get Christine to write with us to provide them some perspective on getting around and living in Nashville or making trips. The song I posted the other day was written by us and John Westwood, who did two tours with me. We wrote several songs with Chrstine. That was my favorite.

Over the past two or three years everyone has sort of moved on into their own lives. Allen got married and that pretty much overwhelms most of his life, along with his job at Noshville and his lawncare business. He is a staff writer for Matt Casey's publishing company. Bonnie just had her second daughter and now that is her priority. Alice is gone more to Birmingham, because she sings with a group called BLACK JACKET SYMPHONY, wihch is a huge operation doing things like HOTEL CALIFORNIA by the Eagles, or Rumors by Fleetwood Mac, tribute shows. They play huge civic center shows around the country. She also helps take care of her Sister and family members in Birmingham.
Jason has a management job and does a hundred things as well as running Triathalons. And Christine, like all Aussie's travels all the time, along with going for her Master's degree here at Lipscomb University, and she manages three rental houses for her parents. So they are all very busy.

Yes, I am proud of all of them, and Christine just sang with us last week. That was what I posted on Facebook. 

I don't know if this link will work as I don't post a lot of stuff. Christine had just posted something and it is not even the full song. I just linked to her. I don't post a lot of the people I work with because they work with other people and I don't get in the middle of that. Christine has been working on this album for about four years so I don't even know where it is. She is not finished with it, so I don't put a lot of stuff up there. When you "share songs" with other people, you have to be cautious about what you put up. Never know what deals they are involved in.

For instance, when we were working on getting Frankie's record deal, I had 18 songs recorded with him. 2 of mine that he sang on and 16 of songs we wrote together. I produced his first CD, which he sold at his gig and got his initial radio airplay on. But once he switched over to Warner Brothers, they didn't want that stuff out, they wanted his new records. So you still have "FRANKIE BALLARD CUTS" but they are on to their own projects, with their writers, their producers, their money, etc.  

So I hope this explains all these people. Anyone can "Google" any of them, Christine particularly, and should be able to hear what she is doing. 

MAB
Eddie Minyard

Hey Phil and Od, you guys play nice.

Phil I don't really hear that much from Frankie as my work with him pretty much ended when he signed his deal. My job was to get him ready FOR his deal. He had his third number one last year and to be 100% honest, I have not paid much attention as I am always on to the next song, the next client, etc and don't really keep up with the past.

I do get things on Facebook from time to time by fans of his. Eddie Minyard here, posted something on Facebook w9th Frankie and some others playing "Tush" with Billy Gibbons (ZZ Top) on the Jimmy Fallon show from last week I believe. Again, I didn't actually open it and look at it. Like much on Facebook, it tends to be up there and gone before I can get to it. 

There might be reasons you don't hear from Frankie. They have never really concentrated on that area. They concentrate more on the Midwest and upper East Coast. Artists will tour certain areas due to their fan base and requirements and may never get to others. Same might be with radio. Radio doesn't always play ALL the top artists. So it just might not be in your area. I believe last year right before the Frank Brown festival he played the Amphitheater there in Orange Beach at the WHARF. That is about 15,000 people so I guess he does okay some places.

Chirstine is one of the five people I call my "Six (now seven) year club." They are Allen Shervelle, Bonnie Lee Panda, Alice Bargeron, Jason Gregory and Christine. They all moved to town or started working with me seven years ago. For a while we did a lot of shows together, writing together, and Recording. They were part of my tours in one way or another, Allen and Bonnie started coming from out of town before they moved here and then when they moved here I work with both of them. Alice had moved here and I knew her from 30 years before in my rock career in Birmingham and I hooked the three of them up because she could sing harmony with them. Jason came here from San Diego and we added him, although he got very busy very quickly. And Christine, hosted several writers nights we all played on.

She was a great part of my tour for Australians. When I would get Aussies' here, I would get Christine to write with us to provide them some perspective on getting around and living in Nashville or making trips. The song I posted the other day was written by us and John Westwood, who did two tours with me. We wrote several songs with Chrstine. That was my favorite.

Over the past two or three years everyone has sort of moved on into their own lives. Allen got married and that pretty much overwhelms most of his life, along with his job at Noshville and his lawncare business. He is a staff writer for Matt Casey's publishing company. Bonnie just had her second daughter and now that is her priority. Alice is gone more to Birmingham, because she sings with a group called BLACK JACKET SYMPHONY, wihch is a huge operation doing things like HOTEL CALIFORNIA by the Eagles, or Rumors by Fleetwood Mac, tribute shows. They play huge civic center shows around the country. She also helps take care of her Sister and family members in Birmingham.
Jason has a management job and does a hundred things as well as running Triathalons. And Christine, like all Aussie's travels all the time, along with going for her Master's degree here at Lipscomb University, and she manages three rental houses for her parents. So they are all very busy.

Yes, I am proud of all of them, and Christine just sang with us last week. That was what I posted on Facebook. 

I don't know if this link will work as I don't post a lot of stuff. Christine had just posted something and it is not even the full song. I just linked to her. I don't post a lot of the people I work with because they work with other people and I don't get in the middle of that. Christine has been working on this album for about four years so I don't even know where it is. She is not finished with it, so I don't put a lot of stuff up there. When you "share songs" with other people, you have to be cautious about what you put up. Never know what deals they are involved in.

For instance, when we were working on getting Frankie's record deal, I had 18 songs recorded with him. 2 of mine that he sang on and 16 of songs we wrote together. I produced his first CD, which he sold at his gig and got his initial radio airplay on. But once he switched over to Warner Brothers, they didn't want that stuff out, they wanted his new records. So you still have "FRANKIE BALLARD CUTS" but they are on to their own projects, with their writers, their producers, their money, etc.  

So I hope this explains all these people. Anyone can "Google" any of them, Christine particularly, and should be able to hear what she is doing. 

MAB





Whatever - Frankie still owes me dinner.
Marc-Alan  Barnette
Yes he does Eddie. you are number 688, 921 in line to get what he owes you. Just be patient.

MAB
Phillip (phil g.) Grigg

MAB, and all. Here is a link to Christine that works. However, MAB has told me it is only half the song. I just think this girl is SO talented, I wanted everyone here, who may not be able to get to the song through FB, to be able to hear her.


https://www.facebook.com/tabitha.a.booker/videos/10206347149036282/?pnref=story


phil g.

Marc-Alan  Barnette
Thank you Phil and I appreciate your wanting to promote Christine. I, like you believe she has some amazing talent and I am glad to introduce people to her when I can.

As this was her posting on Facebook, I felt okay with it being posted and that is fine. But I am a guy who knows about the "One chance to make a bad first impression" so I really don't promote videos done in clubs or things like this too often. As you and I said, this actually was taken by one of her friends last Wed. and the intro and first verse was completely missed. It comes in at the second verse. Also, Christine is playing guitar which is a little too ragged for my taste, as she had another guitar player and me playing. Wanted her just to concentrate on SINGING and PRONOUNCING the words. It is pretty funny but the lyric and title is "DON'T KNOW WHAT CAN'T MEANS ANYMORE", and she pronounces it "DON'T KNOW WHAT CUNT MEANS ANYMORE..." which is a WHOLE NOTHER MEANING!!!!

But she is a HELL of a singer and I hope we can do it again. I really enjoy being around her because she is a pistol! Thanks for posting it Phil. Be good for you around the retirement home where you hang out. Tell them all that she is your young hot girlfriend who is in love with you from afar!

MAB
Larry Killam
Dat Gurl can sing.
Marc-Alan  Barnette
She spells well also.


Phillip (phil g.) Grigg

MAB, I never said I was going to stop torturing the senior citizens with my stupid jokes and already written challenging songs with m sheer vocals and scratchy guitar playing! Heavens no!! As a matter of fact, I'll be in Perdido Key at the Flora-Bama Monday for Cathy's open mic.


phil g.




Well, I'm sad to report I didn't make it over there yesterday. I got within 2 hrs. of being there and had to turn around and return home.
I actually wasn't feeling that good yesterday morning, and probably should have never left. Doing much better today. I HATE having to miss commitments. Especially at he last minute. The thing that had got me to go in the first place was a volunteer appreciation dinner, which I had RSVP'd to.
So I had to call them and apologize also.


phil g.

OD OldDog

Philboy, so sorry to hear you weren't able to make the trip.  I know it meant a lot to you.


 


OD


 


 

Marc-Alan  Barnette
TO DEMO, OR NOT TO DEMO, THAT BE THE QUESTION

By MAB

It used to be that every writer would write songs, do rudimentary, work tapes, with an acoustic guitar, or piano, and be able to wander around the vaunted halls of publishing offices, playing either live, or their “tapes” (that’s how long ago that was), and artists, producers, or labels would hear the song, take in the studio, and BINGO, magic happened. HIT SONGS!!! Well, yes and no. In some cases, in the very early days, that happened. Then, came more and more songwriters and A LOT MORE SONGS!!! And more recording studios, higher technologies, etc. all expanded just like going from black and white, to color, to smaller, larger, High definition Internet, and mostly the PUBLIC’S EXPECTATIONS when they listen to music. Now, we have better listening ability on our cell phones than most of those huge speakers and high tech components of the home stereos of yesteryear.



Where this comes for songwriters is WHAT TYPES OF RECORDINGS do we now do? Can we still count on just a guitar vocal demo (for DEMONSTRATION) or do we have to go “all in” on our recordings? Well, the general rule is that now, we never know where a song will end up. That “home demo” can end up on some cable television show, or in the “back door” office of some publisher or producer, who is having to screen through hundreds or thousands of songs for a project. One chance to make a bad first impression. So, what to do?



Well, first of all, you have to look at it more than just a “demo.” Because of the loss of value in SONGS themselves, due to rampant downloading, all music paying less than ever before, getting a “cost ratio” is difficult. The reality is that unless you get a REALLY big hit, you may not make back the money you spent for the recording. So being careful and methodical are first order of the day.



#1. WRITE A LOT OF SONGS. Like anything, the more you do something, the better you are at it. One big problem people have is when they just write a few songs, go record them, then write BETTER SONGS. They’ve already spent their money. What next. Well, if you have a good supply of songs to choose from, you have more options.



#2. DETERMINE THE APPLICATION. Is this for yourself as an artist? A “record” of your writing level? A “time capsule” of where you were at this particular time in your musical journey? Is this just to “pitch” to other artists, film, television. If you have a good quality recording, with “backing tracks”, you have opportunities more than just the song itself. A lot of television, movies, commercials, are “track beds”, which are music only, without vocals. Can multiply your applications.



Today, there are many “stripped down” versions of songs and artists. Having a more acoustic approach with a few light instruments, can work wonderfully. In electronic or more sequenced music, much can be done on computers and keyboards. Or in rap, hip hop, and many “urban” types of music, can be very percussive oriented. With technology, it can be only limited by the imaginations of the writers and studio. As well as cost, effective



#3. DON’T JUST DO “DEMOS.” My personal method would be to WRITE SONGS WITH ARTISTS. Or if you are an artist, writing songs with more experienced writers. Teaming up with others allows others to share in the costs and to assist in promoting the song and the artist themselves. And it does not preclude “pitching” the song to other artists. But having a song that goes onto an artist’s web site, YOU TUBE, FACEBOOK, REVERB NATION, multiple social networking sites, often beats a song just being played on a computer or I-phone.



#4. TEST SONGS OUT. Another plus of working with performers, if they are out PERFORMING, you can gauge the impact of songs. Testing it in various applications around different audiences, small, medium or large. Does it stand up with cover songs or other songs that one does? Do people respond to it. Do they contact you on social networking sites asking to get a copy of the song? Is it requested at the shows?



#5. GET PROFESSIONAL FEEDBACK. It would be great if everyone had a “mentor” or some professional person to listen to and comment on songs. It would be great if everyone had a contact with a publisher. But that is not always possible, at least at first. So often you might want to go through a paid critique service, or a web site dedicated to songwriting and songs. Getting multiple independent opinions from trusted people across a spectrum, getting various opinions (and that is just what they are) help you make up your mind. Joining songwriting groups, having regular get togethers, just like a book club, will help give you different perspectives. If you get a lot of people saying the same thing independently, might ought to listen. Attending workshops or seminars, all help to find as much info as possible.

My favorites: NSAI (Nashville Songwriters Association International), Music Starts Here, Indie Connect, Songtown, Song U., Songramp.com, Just Plain Folks, Songwriter 101 (BMI site), are just a few. Private teachers like Jason Blume, Steven Seskin or with all due humility, YOUR’S TRULY, can help in that direction. 
OD OldDog

MAB,

I couldn't agree more with you about your advise to play songs out and get a feel for the audience's reaction before anyone spends money on a professional recording.  I realize not everyone (especially a new espiring songwriter or artist can afford to professionaly demo every song they may write).  It's truly best to pick and choose the best songs to spend money on.

However; I would also suggest that anyone wanting to share a song; whether on a songwriting site or take to Nashville for a workshop that a professional may hear, to have an excellent recording whether from a local studio with local musicians or preferrably a Nashville recording with professional studio musicians.

I personally prefer my songs to be demoed by professional Nashville musicians; but I also prefer gorgeous blondes.
However; I can't afford both.  Ha!!!

OD


 


 

Eddie Minyard

TO DEMO, OR NOT TO DEMO, THAT BE THE QUESTION

By MAB

It used to be that every writer would write songs, do rudimentary, work tapes, with an acoustic guitar, or piano, and be able to wander around the vaunted halls of publishing offices, playing either live, or their “tapes” (that’s how long ago that was), and artists, producers, or labels would hear the song, take in the studio, and BINGO, magic happened. HIT SONGS!!! Well, yes and no. In some cases, in the very early days, that happened. Then, came more and more songwriters and A LOT MORE SONGS!!! And more recording studios, higher technologies, etc. all expanded just like going from black and white, to color, to smaller, larger, High definition Internet, and mostly the PUBLIC’S EXPECTATIONS when they listen to music. Now, we have better listening ability on our cell phones than most of those huge speakers and high tech components of the home stereos of yesteryear.



Where this comes for songwriters is WHAT TYPES OF RECORDINGS do we now do? Can we still count on just a guitar vocal demo (for DEMONSTRATION) or do we have to go “all in” on our recordings? Well, the general rule is that now, we never know where a song will end up. That “home demo” can end up on some cable television show, or in the “back door” office of some publisher or producer, who is having to screen through hundreds or thousands of songs for a project. One chance to make a bad first impression. So, what to do?



Well, first of all, you have to look at it more than just a “demo.” Because of the loss of value in SONGS themselves, due to rampant downloading, all music paying less than ever before, getting a “cost ratio” is difficult. The reality is that unless you get a REALLY big hit, you may not make back the money you spent for the recording. So being careful and methodical are first order of the day.



#1. WRITE A LOT OF SONGS. Like anything, the more you do something, the better you are at it. One big problem people have is when they just write a few songs, go record them, then write BETTER SONGS. They’ve already spent their money. What next. Well, if you have a good supply of songs to choose from, you have more options.



#2. DETERMINE THE APPLICATION. Is this for yourself as an artist? A “record” of your writing level? A “time capsule” of where you were at this particular time in your musical journey? Is this just to “pitch” to other artists, film, television. If you have a good quality recording, with “backing tracks”, you have opportunities more than just the song itself. A lot of television, movies, commercials, are “track beds”, which are music only, without vocals. Can multiply your applications.



Today, there are many “stripped down” versions of songs and artists. Having a more acoustic approach with a few light instruments, can work wonderfully. In electronic or more sequenced music, much can be done on computers and keyboards. Or in rap, hip hop, and many “urban” types of music, can be very percussive oriented. With technology, it can be only limited by the imaginations of the writers and studio. As well as cost, effective



#3. DON’T JUST DO “DEMOS.” My personal method would be to WRITE SONGS WITH ARTISTS. Or if you are an artist, writing songs with more experienced writers. Teaming up with others allows others to share in the costs and to assist in promoting the song and the artist themselves. And it does not preclude “pitching” the song to other artists. But having a song that goes onto an artist’s web site, YOU TUBE, FACEBOOK, REVERB NATION, multiple social networking sites, often beats a song just being played on a computer or I-phone.



#4. TEST SONGS OUT. Another plus of working with performers, if they are out PERFORMING, you can gauge the impact of songs. Testing it in various applications around different audiences, small, medium or large. Does it stand up with cover songs or other songs that one does? Do people respond to it. Do they contact you on social networking sites asking to get a copy of the song? Is it requested at the shows?



#5. GET PROFESSIONAL FEEDBACK. It would be great if everyone had a “mentor” or some professional person to listen to and comment on songs. It would be great if everyone had a contact with a publisher. But that is not always possible, at least at first. So often you might want to go through a paid critique service, or a web site dedicated to songwriting and songs. Getting multiple independent opinions from trusted people across a spectrum, getting various opinions (and that is just what they are) help you make up your mind. Joining songwriting groups, having regular get togethers, just like a book club, will help give you different perspectives. If you get a lot of people saying the same thing independently, might ought to listen. Attending workshops or seminars, all help to find as much info as possible.

My favorites: NSAI (Nashville Songwriters Association International), Music Starts Here, Indie Connect, Songtown, Song U., Songramp.com, Just Plain Folks, Songwriter 101 (BMI site), are just a few. Private teachers like Jason Blume, Steven Seskin or with all due humility, YOUR’S TRULY, can help in that direction. 





Excellent article, MAB!