MAB Q&A

Hey folks,

Big show night last night. Scott Southworth and I plus another guy we did not know, were on stage for the last show of the day last night. A very interesting courtyard venue, in the middle of several stores and moonshine stills. That's right, MOONSHINE stills! They do that up here and it is big money with Moonshine tastings. Very funny the people who go in and out of there. In front of the stage are dozens of rocking chairs and people come in, sit down and rock away while you sing. They all had those little hand fans, so when you have that going on with the rocking chairs, it is like everyone is in time with the music. Very funny.

You see a lot of funny things from the stage, from expressions on people's faces, cute girls (one girl was in this very tight skirt and top, and nearly litterally was "busting out" all over) had to have her boyfriend screen for her while she...regathered herself. The women who love to come up and put their feet on the stage during the 'BAREFEET" song. And none of their feet were really that sexy.

One of the things that was very interesting is the other guy that was playing with us. He was not bad, mid 40's but really an amateur songwriter. I know cause he kept TALKING about it. He owns and asphalt company in Indiana and this is a vacation. But he was having trouble keeping up with myself and Scott. Scott is REALLY a good writer and performer and I guess I don't suck. But the guy's songs were having trouble find their way out there. People would get restless, many would move to be replaced by others. I listened pretty intently and a lot of it was because he was donig those average rhymes, titles, and pretty predictable melodys. And he would WEAR OUT A HOOK. There is a time when you have to stop REPEATING a PHRASE!!! About three times at the end is good. But when you do it 8-9 even 10 times, people have GOTTEN IT!!!! 
A cute thing was when he brought his wife down front to sing a song to her. She is very pretty and both of them are very young, but they have SIX children! They don't look old enough to have one or two. I guess the asphalt business keeps him young. LOL!

So it is pretty easy to find songwriting material. Remembering it is the problem. But you file it in your brain and pull it out when you need it.

The most interesting thing was one guy that kept coming up to the stage and pulling on my leg. This is WHILE I am peforming a song. I couldn't understand what he was saying. Finally, when someone else was doing a song, I figured out what he was saying "You need to do something for the military." I told him I would and he stood around saying that over and over. So I had to wait a few songs to get to it. By then a few more people were there listening and several had that "military look." Hair cuts, t-shirts, tatoos, etc. So I ripped out "24 NOTES", the song I wrote with Big Ed, about "taps" being 24notes. That song really hits hard, and there was more than a few tears, waves, and thank you's on that. Afterword several people wanted a CD of it. Gonna have to include that on one. 
There is just no way to have all the songs on CD outside of the 9 cd "MAB GREATEST HITS" CD!

Was a great night. Later, we wandered around trying to find something to eat.It actually closes early here, one AM, and of course I am an hour ahead of the time in Nashville, so it gets easy to get confused about everything. Just have to know where you are all the time. Afterward was another jam/guitar pull, in the Gatlinburg Inn. The Gatlinburg is the oldest hotel here and it looks it. In nice shape but the rooms and whole hotel look straight out of the 1950's. Wood paneled walls, green carpeting. But they have pictures of all the famous people that have been there. Looks like a Country Music Hall of Fame wall. You see, every major country music star in history seems to have stayed there.

In the 50's a husband and wife named FELICE AND BOUDELOUX BRYANT used to come here from Nashville to hole up and write. They wrote "ROCKY TOP" , WAKE UP LITTLE SUSIE" and several other standards in this one room. The first one's got so successful they got the same room every year and wrote. Then they brought their friends. So hundreds of songs have been written there. There actually is a songwriting seminar going on today which I hope to go see some folks in. Next year I hope I am involved with it.

So that is about it for today. Good to see you guys chiming in. Another show today.

MAB
 

Meh, yeah here is basically what i look like every day now... LOL it's a big change from the office and the a.c.!!! When i get home I'm wanting to crash but finally i'm used to the labor enough i can come home eat a meal, and get out to a show or write with someone.

MAB, sounds like you've been tearing up the circuit brother!!! I'll always bear witness NOBODY can command an audience like the MABster, i witnessed myself in Alabama. I've been writing with STRICTLY artist lately like MAB said I see NO other way to find my song being played out, so i'm 100 percent seeking artists,

The kids has got to run though, taking neice out to breakfast, and kids to a splash pad, looking forward to tomorrow I wrote a song that I will actually sing on the track myself! That'll be fun experience for me finally get to sing out my own material as well will be a nice change i'll post it up when i'm done. Meeting with the guy round two tomorrow.

Later guys and gals!

sorry meh real quick realized i didn't answer your question...

The City of Tomball is where I work.... Later!!!!

Justin,

Good to see you. Interesting outfit. Proctology can be very labor intensive but I am sure you are handling it well.

Stay at it.

MAB 

MAB, very estute of you!!! I had removed my rubber gloves moments before the photo!!!

Kid,

You must still be a little sloppy with your lyrics if you come out of a songwriting session looking like that.  
Also;  I know you are full of "Bull" so I hope your co-writers get to wear a pair of boots like that.  
It looks like they need them.  Ha!!!

MAB,  I told my Army buddy Mackboy about your festival in Gatlinburg and he was sorry he didn't know about it before hand.  Maybe next year we will use that as an opportunity for an Army buddy reunion.  I also mentioned to him about the FB festival coming up; but I don't know that he will be open to that one.  We'll see.  

I'd like to say "Hey" to Miss Meliss (the one OD "Loves the Best") and wish her the best with her music.  Miss Meliss,  you and Gary would love the ocean front Condo's and the shows that go on at Frank Brown.  I hope the two of you can make it.  However;  if Gary is too busy and can't make the trip,  let the Old Dog know and I will show up to escort you and be your protector.  Awe, come on everyone !!!
Miss Meliss knows the Old Dog is a gentleman and would be stricly honorable.  So there.

Hey Simone,  welcome to the MAB Forum.  It's always a pleasure to welcome a lovely lady to the site.  I know they have warned you about the Old Dog and his love for you pretty ladies; but I'm going to hold back on my usual foolish questions.  Just know OD loves any name a gorgeous lady has, that ends in "moans".   So Simone,  I think I may "Love You Best".  

Hey, your trip to the USA really interests the Old Dog and I wish you would take the time to tell us a little about yourself; like are you attracted to fat old men.  No....... for get that one.   I mean, tell us about your music journey and what you are up to.  

Would you please tell us how big a part your music played in your trip to the USA, and what you learned in all of the cities you visited.  Then maybe you could tell us how you heard about the MAB and how your meeting him went for you.  Then maybe you could tell the Old Dog if your boyfriend owns a gun and if you know where he hides the bullets.  All information you can share about your music and the references to guns and any lust for fat old men would be helpful and appriciated.

OD

OD, hope you can make it to Frank Brown in Nov. According to their website, it's the 6-16. I plan on working the Florbama lunch and evening shows. Last year they had an open mic every day fro 2pm to 4 or 5 pm. I sat in 2 or 3 of them. Want to do more of those this year also.

MAB, so glad you're having a great time at the songwriter festival. If I could I'd go to all of them too.

Justin, glad to hear your job is going so good, and that you have found artists to write with. Thats great!

phil g.

Phil,

I could be wrong, but I believe you might be seeing last years festival. They have sent me the information for this year and it is Nov. 7-17th. At least that is what I have down and I wrote it from the emails they sent me getting my schedule. They have a bad habit of having the previous years dates on the web site. I will check it and see what the deal is. If it is the 6th, I'll be there. I hope not because I have a gig with RiDawn the 5th. I hate to have to rush down there but usually the first night is the opening night stuff so I wouldn't have a gig until Friday anyway. 

Another pretty amazing day and night and I am just too tired to go over it now, but will outline it tomorrow. Od, Simone knew of me from Doak. Who is where I get a lot of my business.

MAB 

 I thought  Doak had  finished his " home at  doaks "every x  sunday of the month?.

BTW I am meeting Simone  Tuesday  for a  " hi!  get  to  know you  and see where it goes "

MAB [IS] right. AGAIN! When I went to the main web page it says "Join us Nov. 6-16, 2014", but when I clicked on their schedule, it show dates from Nov 7 - 17.

Let me say it for you; MAB IS ALWAYS RIGHT!

phil g.

MAB,

Question...

The more I write and venture out into trying to sing songs I write myself I find myself running into a problem with the "rules" Now I know there are no "rules" it seems when it comes to a good song and it's time length.... provided us Texans don't surpass say the 18 minute mark LOL but when I write with an artist I always write with radio in mind and keep that 3 1/2 give or take just to "give them a shot" (and myself if you will) for a solidl song that if heard wouldn't already have that stumbling block should the lottery hit and the write person hear it.

But I can't seem for the LIFE OF ME to write my OWN song and SING it that doesn't start brushing that four minute mark. I trim the if ands buts cause, go over it with a fine tooth come but my speed of singing is slow most times, sure I'm satisfied with the outcome but am I just facing a sort of "guilt" by flirting with four minutes? Or is there reeeeally anything wrong with it? I'm not talking about gunning for radio just a solid song that's "good" by all standards? Should I avoid it at all cost or is it ok to let it run into that time length if it's more or less?

     Hey folks,

God, I have slept later than I have in years! Guess the mountain air and having drapes that make everything black as night will do that! About to pack up and hit the road. But it was an amazing day and night and I'll fill you in in a minute.

John, Doak did stop the third Sunday's about three years ago but he is constantly active all over Nashville. His main thing is the NASHVILLE MUSE which is an internet newsletter that educates people on the goings on in the industry. You should sign up for that. He is the most active and well known networker in Nashville, being everywhere.He is involved in workshops on everything from hit writers and publishers, is in the thick of the industry about as well as anyone I have ever seen, actually much better than I am. And he is known literally worldwide by people which is how Simone knows him. This guy IS Nashville networking. He meets hundreds of people a week and when he finds someone who is a candidate for my services, he will send them to me.That is how Simone found me.

Phil, I thought that was right. When I get "official comfirmation" on shows, festivals, sessions, etc. through email, I put it into my phone for my calander. Then usually I send it to Tina who puts it on my web site. I sometimes have to go there to find out what I am doing.
The Frank Brown Festival and all songwriters festivals are notoriously confusing and all come together at the last minute. Trying to juggle hundreds of writers from all over the world, getting schedules, dealing with venues that come in and then drop out, sponsors that change their minds, and all the duties and responsibilities of a major Military operation, keep them so. So they are really bad about having the schedules even up until the last minute. You kind of just have to go and figure out what you are doing when you get there.
One year, I went to the web site about two weeks before to put my Frank Brown shows on my web site. As I started writing them down on my calander, I kept noticing that it was remarkably similar to the gigs from the year before. The same places, the same times, the same nights as the year before. About halfway through the week's bookings, I decided to go back the year before. I looked where I played and they were not only similar, THEY WERE EXACTLY THE SAME GIGS!! That is because THEY HAD THE SCHEDULE FROM THE YEAR BEFORE UP ON THE WEB SITE!!!

I quit trying to worry about it, zero out the time and just go, They'll let me know when I get there. I often pick up extra gigs becauase writers cancel, don't want the boring writers that are booked with them, or just want to book me,as someone who is a known entity.  There will also be last minute changes, charity things, special guest things like television and school appearances they need someone because most songwriters sleep all day. So I can do all that easier than anyone. Plus, I know the history of the festival so I can tell it pretty well for a news program or radio show. One year, one of the writers got arrested for DUI at 4 in the morning. They called me to go give his speech to the Chamber of Commerce at 7:00 in the morning. After I had played three gigs the day  before and been at the same late night party. MAB is the MINUTE MAN!!! Ready to go in a Minute's notice.

                                                        SMOKEY MOUNTAIN WRAP UP

This has been one for the ages. The SMOKEY MOUNTAIN FESTIVAL is a great time, great setting and this year has been very good for me. Yesterday, I decided to quit fighting the traffic and walked everywhere. The actual town is only about 10 block slong, although it is on a slope going uphill, so it can be a challenge.Glad I've been walking a lot. It is basically one street with hundreds of shops, stores, clothing stores, country kitch, miniture golf, Ripley's Believe it or not museums, a huge aquariam, and all kinds of things. And HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ALL PACKED IN TO TEN BLOCKS. It is a huge traffic jam with people either coming into town or taking the one road into the mountains.

I wandered the streets first trying to find a charger for my phone, which was a night mare in it'self. Not only getting a charger, but then trying to find somewhere to plug it in for a few minutes at a time to get any battery power. Tina of course was very unhappy with me which she lets me know frequently. She hates it when my phone goes down. I understand but sometimes there is not much you can do. So I was working against that and a tide of people that was very hard to get around.

I saw a few other shows, the venues are all pretty close to each other, you can catch three or four by walking two or three doors apart. Got to see some of my friends,eat, charge, etc.

Then it was time for my show. And this is so typical of amateur writers. They had me listed with three other writers. I was there 45 minute early to see this girl duo, the DARLINS, and saw a really packed patio area where the shows were going on. There were no other writers. As the Darlin;s show finished I was ready to go on stage, guitar in tune, ready to jump up becauase I HATE to lose people, and it was packed! Luckily also the weather was starting to cloud up which means it would be cooler as well as keep the people in with me.

I got onstage and set and still no other writers. So I just started. I got about six songs in and was really in my element. ik was connecting with the audience, they were crowding around, not only in the rocking chairs and benches but on the sides as both of the sides are open air. There were a couple hundred people in there and I was really rocking. Then this other guy shows up with his guitar case. He kind of ambles up onstage. I finish a song and invite him up. he pulls out his guitar, talks a little about why he was late, which actually was just a rambling statement that made no sense. Then he TUNES for the next five minutes. And never gets in tune.
I get him to play a song, which is overlong, out of tune, and LOUD! The sound guy seemed to not be able to understand to turn him down but man he was blowing me out. So I play my next song, Too Much Blood, where I do vocal impressions, do the song differently, and he just PLAYS LEADS ALL THROUGH MY SONG. No breaks, nothing just plays very badly all over the place. He did another out of tune song after the intro of the song, 'I know you're not supposed to do POLITICAL SONGS! Great! now he is going to run everybody in the audience off. And he tried. But by now it was raining so I at least had that in my favor.

By this time a third writer showed up, being late from another thing he was doing. I knew this guy,At having actually having worked with him. He was not bad but he was OUT OF TUNE TOO. And now both of them are playing with each other OUT OF TUNE. At least G.D.W.TH.EVH. (Guitar Dude WHO THINKS HE'S EDDIE VAN HALEN), was trying to ruin this guys stuff as much as trying to ruin mine. My next song, THING FOR YOU, was being crowded all over by him and I finally leaned back and told him to Lay out!" I HATE AMATEURS because they never LISTEN TO ANYTHING. But he finally did. For about a minute. 
Then he starts playing on the other guys stuff out of tune again, and I got a FLASH OF BRILLIANCE. The guy mixing the sound was sitting a few feet from me, so while GD was wailing around on his latest oddyesee of LONG BORING SONG examples, (I think he was doing STAIR WAY TO HELL!!!), I very quietly pulled out my cell phone, kept it behind my guitar so no one could see it, and wrote out "PLEASE TURN THIS GUY DOWN ON MY STUFF, HE IS OUT OF TUNE AND HAS A CASE OF OVERPLAYERS ANNONOMYS!!!" And I handed the cel phone to the sound guy. He laughed his butt off, and did what I asked. 

I didn't have any problem from GD afterward. He got turned off.

So the set went well despite all the crap going on. Sometimes it is a real fight to keep things going. But that is why I am considered a pro. The MAB will conquer all. 

After that I wandered around a while, shaking hands with people on the street. I looked like I was running for office. And tried to find a place to plug in my phone.  Suddenly I get a text from two of my friends from Nashville,who had last minute decided to come up, and were just around the corner from me. So we got together and for the next three hours I showed them around. We walked all over the place and were sweating wearing out and hungry. Now the one thing to always eat up here is TROUT! It is fished right out of the stream that runs throughout the mountains and very fresh and very good. 
We ended up having to walk to my car, which was at the bottom of the hill, and I took them to my favorite resturant and venue where I play, and ate there and saw one of the shows. It was amazing! The food is astounding and I looked like a genuis, having to make up for my forced march to the Sea.

We went back and I showed them a couple of the major shows. Onstage was Doug Johnson, Kim Williams (Three Wooden Crosses,  Papa loved Mama,Ain't Going Down the Sun Comes Up), Will Nance (Round about Now, She;s Everything), and joined by another friend and co-writer, Jim McBride, (Way Down Yonder on the Chattahoochie, Chasin that Neon Rainbow). These guys put on a two hour show with nothing but hits. And most of them were the same group that I played for the other night. 
As they did that, I went over to the GATLINBURG INN, the main place where the Festival orginzers were.

There, my friend Scott Southworth from the Music Row show was setting up a television show for after the other shows were over. It was set up like a late night guitar pull, and would have microphones, television cameras, and a real studio feel in the main lobby. He and Heino have a television version of the Music Row show in some cable markets. This was going to be filmed to play at a later date to promote the show.  

It went down an hour later and about 60 people packed into this little room and we did the show. It was Jerry Salley, who wrote some Vince Gill hits, Will Nance, and Max T. Barnes. Max is amazing, not only having written some incredible hits, but is the son of MAX D. BARNES, who was one of Nashville's greatest songwriters, writing things like CHISELED IN STONE for Vern Gosdin. 
The show was incredible with each of us doing two songs. Max told the story of the night he and his father were up for song of the year at the CMA's. He was nominated for LOVE ME, A Colin Radio masterpiece. Which he started performing, then in the middle he shifted to his Father's song, which is the one that WON the CMA song of the year. "LOOK AT US" by Vince Gill. It was the only time a Father/Son competition had happened in CMA history.

These are the kinds of magic moments you get at these things. Amazing night.

I finished that show, and was told I needed to go to another show/party going on back at the place I had dinner earlier. "Whisperin Bill Anderson" was supposed to be there because he had done a big concert that night and was hanging out afterword. And the Festival people wanted him to see me. I was EXHAUSTED but decided to go.  
I got there as several people were leaving and I almost didn';t go in. SOMETIMES YOU JUST GOTTA DO IT!

I went in and there was still a huge crowd. But it was not Bill. It was people from Sony and Curb records, publishers and that group of people, Kim Williams, Jim McBride, Doug Johnson, and several others sitting in there. One by one several writers got up and played. I just kind of hung around and talked. Kim and his wife have been talking about ALL ALONE AGAIN, since the other night and he wants to bring it back out and start pitching it. Jim McBride remembered a song we wrote long ago and wants to revisit that one and possibly write some more. Doug wants me to touch base with him back in Nashville,and his wife, who is a major publisher wants to know what I am up to.

At the end, they got me back up and I did All Alone Again. That is the most rangy vocal I do with the final note a HUGE HIGH "A" note. Usually only dogs can hear that one. But I pegged it and got a standing ovation. Then Kim wanted me to do the song from Les Mizerables", the one that got him interested in writing with me. So I did that.
Here we were MAB SINGS BROADWAY!! I hadn't done that song in about 10 years but still pulled it off I guess because it was another standing Ovation. Then the festival orginizer, Cindy Reeves,comes down and wants me to play THAT song! I figure it;s TABLES AND CHAIRS,and I do that one. Another standing o. I keep trying to get off the stage but i guess I keep doing encores at this point. The song she wanted was NOT tables and Chairs, but THE HARD WAY, the song SCOTT and I wrote after last years festival. Another standing O. I figured these people would be worn out by now. And they were.

We closed out the night. As I walked out, everyone was standing around in groups, and we were all hugging and saying good bye. Doug Johnson's wife, ( I can't remember her name) came over with this really perplexed look. She just looked me in the eye and told me she didn't remember when she had been so moved. She was nearly crying. Was really kind of odd. Here is a really jaded publisher, really involved in the business and she was moved the way we all love to be when it comes to music. She hugged me pretty hard and thanked me.

That is what you live for in this business. Respect of your peers. You throw out deals, because those rarely go through with anyway. Throw out money because you rarely make any. and Fame because no one ever knows or cares who you are.

You just have to have personal goals and touching lives. That is what I was able to do.

Yeah, I'm pretty proud to be a songwriter.

Gotta head back.

MAB 

Justin,

I've got to pack and drive, but I'll address it when I get back to Nashville. it is a good subject and one that really needs to be talked about. Will get it this afternoon.

MAB 

MAB - Thank you for the posts. I was never disagreeing with you! In your posts it seemed you thought I wasn't 'getting it'. I know you are so right...I need to play out, will hopefully do it soon. My husband has offered some warehouse space for me to use for an open mic night - which I might try and do. I want to ask around and see if there's any interest. It would be very simple - nothing crazy. But I thought if I could get about 20 people or so to show up (not just say they will) I could maybe then ask a friend of mine who has a restuarant if he wouldn't mind hosting it there on an off night. But I will take baby steps with it. I'm not looking to take on something huge at the moment. The problem with most open mics around here is that they really are very noisy - we don't have places like Douglas Corner, where everyone is genuinely focused on the music. I'm going to attend a few open mics in the near future - haven't been to any in a while. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I don't think so. Anyway, I will watch how they run it and how it goes before I try the warehouse thing. I have many connections now through my daughters music academy and there are lots of songwriters/artists there. They actually host an open mic there, but it's mainly the younger kids doing it. 

I am reaching out to artists and writing with three people locally so I am doing better on that end. Writing long distance is just hard to accomplish these days. 

Justin - Nice ice bucket challenge! I was just challenged today - I'm kinda pissed to be honest. LOL. Glad you seem to like the new job. Good to get a job with the town. There's usually decent job security and hopefully potentional to keep moving up in your career.

OD - Hey you...good to see you on here. You seem to be behaving yourself mostly, too! 

Phil - Thanks for the info! I'll look into it. 

Hey guys,

Made it back to the Dixie Dawg and Ms. Tina Dee Babe. Very tired. But want to get into some of this while it is on my mind.

Melissa, sometimes when two or more people do some posts at the same time or very close, I will include everyone and try to answer the posts at one time to avoid having a million posts. Might be a little longer to read but usually worth it. When the MAB gets on a roll, he gets on a roll.

I know that you get it because you have been getting out and meeting people.You are already working with one person and I am sure are going to meet many more. Be careful of getting too many people in YOUR area, you might not want that. Find a neutral place like that resturant to meet and start there. Later it might be cool to host a party or something at your place. For now, I would let more people get into it a little at a time. You already have enough on your plate.

I mostly was addressing Peggy about "getting out there." She has the classic thing most writers have. Having spent money, time, effort, on getting demos on songs, he has not been able to find the key part, which would be artists. I am trying to get people not to just do "demos' on songs anymore without artists involved. It is just for most intents and purposes wastes of time and money, since really no one are cutting outside songs anymore.

Kind of the new dynamic. Just like when we started having to get used to having computers everywhere, first those desk tops, then lap tops, now cell phones, I pads, etc. We simply can't avoid it anymore. The same could be said for doing demos now. Now we are doing RECORDINGS, which are radio ready songs, but having an artist involved at least means they might include it on a project, do a video, CD or make it a part of their overall career.  That is really the only way to get cuts now.

Existing songs are important and you can't  discount the fact that you need them to represent your work, the deapths of your writing, etc. And AFTER you get to know an artist, building the relationships, maybe then they might consider recording some of your existing songs. So they are never a waste. We all have to do them.

But we are in an era where you don't demo that many songs. You write a lot, even get nice work tapes on them, but you hold off on demoing them until they are tested out, been performed, and see how well they stand out among other songs, artists and writers.

But the only way to get that started is to get out of the living room. And that is usually in the areas around you. as most of you have found out, it is usually closer than you think.

MAB 

                                                         THREE MINUTES OF MAGIC

Justin says:  

Justin, in almost all cases, anything that goes much longer than three minutes is simply tuned out in the mind of the average listener. So while you can write ten minute songs if you want, you are mostly going to be completely tuned out and ignored. You may be 'satisfied with it" but the majority of your audience is bored to death, and you end up being like those people you sit next to that bore the crap out of you. has nothing to do with RADIO. Has everything to do with human nature and attention span.

Before you understand WHY we have to do something, you need to understand HOW we got here. Ready for the history lesson?

When music actually got started (not just melodic folk tales passed down from generation to generation) started around the Rennisance, in the 1500's. As music began to be written down on paper, and instruments, orchestras read from the same page, the primary use was for dancing. Aside from Operas, classical pieces, etc. the main use was for people to dance to. Three minutes are basically about the time most people could expend energy without needing to rest or be refreshed. Waltzes, then dances of the day were around three minutes. They would stop, get something to drink,switch partners, and repeat. most of those songs were like the "Munuet in "D'. MINUET, get it? "Minute."

So as popular music progressed, that was the format established. Songs would actually be ordered into sections or movements of thirty seconds each. As commercial radio began in the 20's and 30's, it was not designed for music. It was designed for COMMERICAL ADVERTISING. "COMMERCIALS" get it? The insurance companies, and other major companies paid for the broadcasting, the buildings that housed them, the radio equipment, the personel, the radio towers, and all things involved, so they could call the shots. That is why people like "L&C' insurance started the Grand Old Opry and why Nashville became Nashville. Companies like Martha White flour found it a good source of advertising and all jumped on board.

The shorter the song, the more commercials they could get on radio. Most early songs were about two minutes long. Even up to the Beatles era, songs rarely even got to three minutes. Most formats fit the same thing:

Intro-first verse- 30 seconds.
Chorus-              30 seconds
Second verse     30 seconds
second chorus   30 seconds
Bridge or solo    30 seconds.
Outro, repeat chorus 30 seconds.

So most everything as it developed came down to about three minutes and thirty seconds.This was the space of the attention span of 95% of all listeners. Why we talk about the THIRTY SECOND ATTENTION SPAN.

Everyone picks this abberation that happened from around 1967 to the end  of the 70's That was the era of the DRUG CULTURE, experiemental music, the advent of FM radio, and things that happened at that time. Then everything went back to three minutes and change. The closer to three minutes you are, the better.

Texans, came from a culture of storytelling and sitting around the campfire. That continues today,but not really any place outside of Texas. Which is why they aleays come here, get pissed off about the "Nashville formula" and go off on their tangents about hating Nashville. They go back, bad mouth us, then get upset because the rest of the world doesn't revolve around their time frames. Whatever. For the most part they are incredibly boring.

The majority of hit songs, lasting songs, classic songs, are right around three minutes and thirty seconds. If you check out those songs from your hero, Allen SHamblin, you will probably find they fit right in there. Even songs that are longer, don't FEEL longer because they don't belabor the point, there is always somthing going on that rachets up the interest in the song. But if you put a stop wacth on it, you will find it divided into thirty second segments.

As far as your own songs go Justin, you are satisfied with the product, because it is just you. If you were to be around a lot of writers all trying to do their songs, you would find it differently. If you were waiting in line behind dozens of them all doing their four and five minute songs, you would be getting restless. After three or four hours of it, you would be frustrated as Hell. When there were three people in the audience, who want you to finish so they can close the bar and go home, you would be really hacked off.

Is it REALLY nessasary? Depends on how fast you want to be ignored. But if you are out there and start seeing cel phones coming out, people walking out, talking over you, then you will re-think the length of your songs. Why you continue to hit that four minute mark, is because of tempo, you are repeating yourself throughout the song, saying the same thing, you have too many words and have not learned economy yet. What you think is nessasary is usually not, and you have superfelous things that you could do without. And if you are writing beyond two verses, choruses, and maybe a bridge, you are overwriting. Period.

Again, it is just inexperience and that should change the more you are around other people. But as long as you are not sitting there all night, waiting on your turn to play and watching audiences walk out on you, you will never appreciate the ability to constrain your songs.

That is WHY it is nessasary.

MAB

Glad you made it back, MAB. I can imagine how tired you are, so thanks for the response. I did read the entire previous post - I just must have missed someting.

Justin - I agree about the long songs. People just get fidgety. Maybe not so much in Texas becuase they are used to the longer songs? But here in Jersey at least...you are mostly dealing with people who have the attention span of a gnat. It's just fast paced around here (one of the reasons I'd really like to retire elsewhere!) But anyway, people get fidgety and they will stop listening and if every song that you do is like that, they will come to expect that from you, and next time they see you perform they'll tune you out the second you start singing. Just my opinion. Have you tried taking any of your long songs and shortening them a bit? Or, maybe you just need to speed up your tempo a bit. Maybe you're singing them too slow?

Another thing that is happening. Radio is starting to make their own edits on songs. So they can cut down what you do and you really can't do anything about it. The best thing is to learn now. 
And if you want the real challenge to be a good songwriter, it is being able to do more with less. Nobody wants to listen to these long butt songs, not even Texans. When someone comes in who does shorter songs, they are always more interested in that. Hard to get them to do it themselves (sound familiar?) but they always would rather have shorter songs. 

If you can say a lot in two verses, get to the heart in two SHORT choruses, sum it all up with a bridge or a repeat chorus, that is the test of true songwriting. It doesn't really take any skill or talent to just roame on endlessly, being boring. And Melissa, if you think they are fidgety up there, IMAGINE WHAT AN ENTIRE AUDIENCE OF WRITERS AND ARTISTS WHO WANT YOU OFF THE STAGE SO THEY CAN PLAY IS LIKE.

And contrary to popular belief, most places here in Nashville are NOT quiet. Even Douglas can get very loud when people are bored. Most places have the same noises, the same people talking over everything, blenders going off in the background and people that care nothing about the music. The really ONLY place that is not true is the BLUEBIRD, which stresses that in everything they ever do. When you and Phil did the 360 Burger set, there was a LOT of noise going on. Because it was all going on around me. People were actually talking pretty loud. You didn't hear it because the speakers were right next to you, and the people in the front tables, were all our friends, who know to keep quiet.

So don't think it is just in Jersey. It is everywhere. That is why you have to always be on your game to do this. you are fighting people for their attention. Not an easy thing to do no matter where you are.

MAB 

My2c  worth.

Get a co writer who owns a sharp red pencil

J

Careful when you start ditching Texas and Texans, we are pretty defensive about out state and state of mind. And it is never good to lump everyone in one group. LOL

I understand about getting out and not doing to many demos. Unfortunatley I fall in that catagory of a non performer, non musician, all I have are my lyrics and songs when they are  on cd. I felt I had to get some songs demoed in order to be taken seriously. Then I can approach those artists and they can hear what I am capable of. It is not easy to approach someone with a piece of paper and expect them to hear what  you hear.

I am getting out some, as my job and life allow. I am getting in touch with artists. Two have said that  they would co-write with me, One said he wanted to put one of my songs on his next album( it will be a while because he just released his first)  One is listening to a pitch now and another person has listened to a couple songs and wants to hear more. I am sending some to another artist associated with that one. All those things and more are what I have been working on. After I get my foot in the door, then I can get to the next step. Hopefully they will want more songs which i can maybe do with them as co-writers etc. etc. etc.

It is a different journey when you are not a performer. It is a harder journey. I am finding out how many bad songwriter wantabes are out there and I understand why it is hard to get to an artist. Just about impossible starting out without something that they can actually listen to.

So now I am still working on all of that and getting back to writing some more .

Peggy,
Not dissing the state, just the mindset when it comes to songwriting. You see, Nashville didn't start this. We have had Texans come in for years, and they get all bent out of shape about the way we do things here. This is not Austin, Dallas or Houston. We're not the one's trying to break into that market. They are the one's coming here. And for the most part,all of them are pretty much the same when it comes to formats, and time constraints. It is because they come from a different type of musical environment. They have longer formats, and that is fine. In Texas. Once you step out into another format, you have to adapt to the way it is played on that field. We would have to do the same thing if we were coming there. 

But like most places, the Song markets have run out of gas there so everyone seems to want to come here. Again that is fine, but you don't get to play by your own rules. Just life.

I also mentioned that you had gotten demos and that there was nothing wrong with that. You do have to have something to show people what you do.  But you also have to start being more discriminating about what you record.
And I do know how hard it is for non-peformers have it when it comes to doing music. Half the people I work with consider themselves lyricists only. But most of those don't realize what it takes to be a lyricist and again that is what weeds most people out.

As I said, I can show you what you have to do. How you get there is up to you. We try to help you here, but can't change the rules or expectations.

MAB 

MAB, I wasn't being negative in what I said. I am sorry if it came off that way. And yes, I recorded my first songs and feel that I have improved since I did them, and could do some of them over or at least tweek them. It is a constant learning process. I feel like I know so much more now than when I did them and I expect to know even more this time next year, If i don't then I have a problem. Life is a constant learning process and we are all grateful for what you try to teach us.