MAB Q&A

Didn;t take it negative at all. Actually quite the opposite that you are getting out and getting to know artists. That is the whole deal right there. Party on Garth!

MAB, glad you had such a greaet time in Gatlinburg, and that you are back safe. Man, it's hard to believe that guy was trying to play lead! How rude is that!? Thanks for the history lesson on the 3 min. song. I try to keep all of mine under 3 min. AND, I can tell you from experience, those guys that do the 5 min. intro to a 5 min. song, AND want to do "one more", REALLY get on my nerves!!

Melissa, I don't know how many times you went to Douglas Corner, but that night we were there for MAB's show was special, and everyone was quiet. And I guess, MAB, any special show there would be quiet? If you go there on a Tuesday open mic, you can hardly hear yourself think; Especially if you're in the back. NOW about you wanting to do your own open mic. That's grerat! BUT, rather than a restaurant or bar, think about a coffee house. The two coffee houses here are really great. And most of the time most of the crowd is listening; Not talking. This new place I found, called The Brew Spot, IS a restaurant that serves beer, wine, and coffee. But the open mic show is in a separate room (like Broken Spoke was MAB) and the folks that go back there are mostly quiet.

HEY, When are we going to start talking about the Frank Brown Festival? Remember, it starts the end of the first week in November, and it's already almost September. That's only 2 [short] months to plan. I was thinking about taking my motor home and staying in a state park in Florida, but I would be open to a group condo rental, if we can get it for around $30 each.

phil g.

Hey Phil,

I am going to do that tomorrow. About now I start talking about Frank Brown and start setting up plans to be down there. I will explain the history, my involvement and my suggestions what people should do tomorrow. The $30 condo rental is exactly what I will talk about. That is what people can get at the Regatta, where I am staying. And I, of course can do private or group appointments while we are there. 

I will also be discussing the plans to move the Festival to Fergeson , Mo. this time. Rooms will be cheaper. 
Have had enough for tonight.See you all later.
MAB 

Phil - By quiet, I just mean when the actual performances are going on. I'm going to go on the hunt for a place like you described. But, I do think the warehouse open mic would be kind of cool. Espeically because some of us would know each other, and then this one knows that one, ect. I could get our local songwriters group to come out, possibly. But, like I said. I'm going to do some research - first by attending some other open mics. Maybe playing one or two. I honestly DO NOT want to bite off more than I can chew, and I can see how it could happen fast. So, while this is a goal of mine, it's not a 'gotta do it right this second' goal.  

Noisy audiences...a real bug bear of  mine...... its not gonna change while it is FREE... cos there is no value attached.. Its a scrambled egg thing........   Kinda hard to  put the egg back where it started.. Hmmmmm  There is a song  in that

 john

Marc: You state, "and like Peggy, or Ott, a lot of people want to go spend  lot of money on demos, and want people to hear them, but there is no real fornat for them to be heard. If there is not an artist, you are in trouble in this day and age . . . you are going ro have to realign your thinking for the reality of our age", and "I am trying to get people not to do demos on songs anymore without artists involved".

First of all, I do not sing very well at all. My guitar skills are minimal. If I posted one of my work tapes on any music site, most rational people would mercifully cut me off in the second line of the first verse. So, when I decided I wanted one of my first tunes demoed, I picked a professioal demo firm in Nashville, Beaird Music Group, to do the demo. I even got to pick the professional vocalist. The tune won me an "honorable mention" in the Billboard World Song Contest. Pretty heady stuff when you're just starting out. I could have entered the same tune using my own voice and vocals, but wait! The song was written froma female point of view! What ws I supposed to do? Entrer using my own vocals, and add a note to the entry explaining that? When a lot of the tunes submitted to this contest are of professional quality?  Your suggestion that people who enter these contests should not submit their best I disagree with. If I post up a tune anywhere on the internet, it's going to be the best I can do, every time.  

No formats to be heard? I've tried MySpace, Reverbnation, TAXI, Songramp, and a few others, both free and for profit. I found TAXI the most professional, and their peer to peer site most invaluable. There is a lot of pro level music on that site. Lots of places to at least put my music out there. But only with a professional quality demo. I have also used professional demo producers in Los Angeles and Minneapolis, and have won songwriting awards with them as well. A lot of these songs were posted here on Songramp - two of them even won Song of the Month on this site a year or so ago. Given that around 1700 songs a year are posted on this site, I was pretty pleased with that. Further, because of connections I made on this site, I collaborated with two different artists in Europe, and they both came up with several professional quality demos, which I also posted up here. One of those songs was one of my Song of the Month winners. And I did not have to pay a dime for any of those high quality demos. I think one of the reasons they worked with me is that I posted up high quality songs -- all professionally demoed.

Your comment," I am trying to get people not to do "demos" on songs anymore without  artists involved."   This is truly a chicken/egg statement. Which comes first?  What do I do? If I develop a contact in an artist's inner circle, am I supposed to send them a set of lyrics? A work tape with me singing (especially laughable if I'm writing for a female artist).  I'd consider it a coup to get an artist to simply listen. If they did, they would hear a quality professional demo.  I don't want the artist to do my demo. I want them to do my song.

So, I don't  think I have to "realign my thinking". If I decide one of my tunes is worth a demo, I will have it demoed. You never know in advance what will fly and what won't. Even so, I am fully cognizant of the extremely slim chance of ever getting a cut. . But, You never know who might be listening.

Currently, my best contact is in Los Angeles, a gentleman who has won multiple Granny's. Who I met on line because he produced an album for one of my demo singers. I e-mailed him, pointed out the lady whose album he had just produced had demoed a couple of my songs that had won awards in a couple of song contests, and would he be interested in listening to my music? That was a couple of years ago, and he still listens to my new stuff, and even compliments me on it. Even had me do a re-write of the lyrics on one of my tunes that he particularly liked.  Maybe something will come of it, maybe not.  

So, Marc, I'm doing the best that I can with the resources I have. In my case, that includes professional demos. Always a pleasure exchanging points of view with you! 

Ott

Short songs?  Brain over at JPF had a challenge to do a 30 second song with a VCVCBC format.  I did one and then I put someone elses lyrics to music.  OK, 30 seconds is too short.   I am doing 50/90 this summer and it is sort of blase for me this time around.  I only have six songs so far and they clock in at a combined 10 minutes (ha, ha).   I am doing OK on the song length thing, it is the quality of the songs that is the problem!

Took my daugther to freshman year at college on Friday.   Empty nest, maybe Frank Brown will be in my future!  On the down side she took her ukulele with her and I had used that on three 50/90 tunes.

Ott,

I think you read more of what I say but don't listen to a word more than anyone I have ever seen. It;s the ARTISTS and their inner circles, the people that pay their salaries, the way that society has developed with the Internet and the fact that everyone is doing the same thing that has made pitching songs obsolete, not that fact that you are doing good sounding demos, or using the pitch service, web site of the moment. The reality is that all of those are obsolete.

First of all, NO YOU DON'T SEND IN ANYTHING. You start by ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY GOING OUT AND MEETING ARTISTS and other writers. You try to get them to have coffee, a drink, a meal outside of their gigs. You get to know them and what they are doing. When you have done that, is when they go to your web site, read your lyrics, hear your demos. Not until.
One of the reasons I talk about things like Frank Brown and Smokey Mountain songwriters festivals, finding other ones around you, going to open mics, workshops, seminars, is to get around actual artists and meet them face to face. This weekend in Gatlinburg I was around dozens of artists. Most of them are also being taken around by hit writers who are grooming them for record deals. Those are now the A&R departments. Hit writers grooming their artists to move up the ladder USING THEIR SONGS in the process. None of those people are going to even think about listening to something from someone they don't know. Period. just not going to happen. The only time they go to web sites like Reverbnation, is when THEY have something on there.It is the personal involvement that motivate them. 

I live in the real world, not the bubble world of the Internet. I am out among real people, real artists, real producers, real label people, actual people doing this, not faceless nobodys taking money from someone on the Internet. I deal with real artists, their egos, the things they want to do, and how they are doing it. I deal with the real numbers of sales, or non sales, the conversations in the board rooms. Watching the people that get out there and actually do this.

You can do anything you want to.  But if you are only going to those same sources, winning a contest or two, that is fine well and good. But those are only going to go so far. It is great if you want a pat on the back or a nice piece of paper. Mentions on a web site. Those are all fine. But if you want to go to a different level, have songs actually performed, embraced, gotten in front of audiences, recorded by others, those methods, if they ever worked (which my contention is that they really never have) are done. 

The day of pitching songs outside of a very insular world are done. There has never been one song ever, one artist that sits around in a concert and says " I was searching the Internet all day, and about the three thousanth song I heard that day jumped out at me..."  That is simply unrealistic expectations.
I have been to Minneapolis/St. Paul. There is a very active music scene up there. It is where Prince came from. But it doesn't come to your living room.

For the nine or ten thousanth time I have said that I UNDERTSTAND WHEN PEOPLE ARE NOT PERFORMERS. I work with a majority of people who are not performers. I try to hook them up with performers. I get them around performers, their friends, their inner circles, and many of those people have songs being performed recorded on web sites, all over. Matt Casey and Wags, here won the NSAI song contest this year. Matt has dozens of people he writes with, does shows in Boston and in Nashville. AND HE DOESN'T PLAY OR SING A NOTE.
Julie Moriva is here from Green Bay next week. She has had a publishing deal with TAYLOR SWIFT'S publishing company and writes with, works on videos, and does things with artists with record deals, and major tours. AND SHE CAN'T SING HER WAY OUT OF A PAPER BAG. So I understand that.

But as a non-performer you have a bigger problem than that. You have no experience with audiences. You haven't gotten out there in front of an unfriendly crowd and have to come up with types of songs to win them over. You have no experience sitting face to face with publishers, song pluggers, record people who could not care less about you, shooting your song down after the intro. You haven't worked on finding subjects, grooves, or things that haven't been done to death or fought your way for attention up against hundreds of other songs being played in a row. 

Non performers don't have that. They don't have the inner emotions and physcology that performers have. They haven't lived that life.They haven't gone through the ups and downs, so they are unable to recreate that. And that is what artists are interested in, someone that understands THEM. But even at that,they are not even going to think about listening to anything that is not presented to them personally and in the right way. 

If you don't want to physically meet people face to face,if you don't like the act of getting out there and going to see other people  perform, getting to know other people outside of an Internet site, that is up to you. But if you think you are going to "mail things in" and get a different result than all the other people who are mailing it in, you are going to have a long wait to find out the same thing.

Again, until you physically know people, you are SPAM email. Ask yourself, how much spam email do you open from people you don't know?

That's what the Internet is up against.

MAB 

                                                   FRANK BROWN SONGWRITERS FESTIVAL    
                                                  (WHAT IS IT, WHY IS IT AND WHAT DOES IT DO?)

I stress songwriters festivals, music festivals (not nessasarily the big Lollapaloosa type things, but places you can actually meet other writers and artists)  folk festivals (although they have their own problems), workshops, seminars, open mics, writers nights, etc. because that is where your potential allies, co-writers and future artists congregate. You have to GO where other writers and artists are to START that relationship. Chicken or the Egg Ott? REally? You have to MEET THEM FIRST! It is the equivilant of walking up to a woman or man you have never met and rapid fire start asking questions like when do they want the wedding to be, where they want to honeymoon, what kind of lingere they are going to be wearing, what names they should give kids, what kind of house they want to live in, what they think the retirement to be like, how much money they make, what they spend it on..... ALL IN THE FIRST TWO MINUTES OF A CONVERSATION!

You are putting the cart WAY before the horse if you are trying to pitch songs to people you don't know and have no relationship with. That avenue has closed. Now is the time to get in the real world.

FRANK BROWN.

Coming up in November is the FRANK BROWN INTERNATIONAL SONGWRITERS FESTIVAL in Perdido Key Florida and Gulf Shores Alabama. If you look at a map of the US, and see where the state line of Alabama and Florida meet, that is Perdido Key. It is a series of three small towns all linked together in about a 20 square mile line of beach in between Pensecola Florida and Mobile Alabama. It is the atypical SLEEPY LITTLE BEACH TOWN.

The Festival got started thirty years ago (this is the 30th anniversery) when Joe Gilchrest, the owner of a little lounge and package store sitting on the state line, THE FLORABAMA LOUNGE, decided to have a little get together weekend built around music after labor day and before the snow birds came down in December.  It was just a way to bring a few people in and celebrate the beauty of the area. Joe, a retired college professor, had won the Florabama in a poker game, which should tell you what kind of gambler he is. But he loved music, especially country  music. 

There were many of the Nashville great writers, Witey Shafer, Hank Cochran, Red Lane, Danny Dill, Sonny Throckmorton, and a few others that would come down, drink heavily, play golf, chase women, and gamble there anyway. So getting them to sit around in a guitar pull  in a lounge giving them free drinks and food was a no brainer. The first weekend was great, just af few writers and a bunch of very intimate friends.
The night watchman, an IMMENSE OLD BLACK MAN, was named FRANK BROWN. He loved music and kept the peace down there, so they named it after him. He got to see it grow into an event before he passed away in 1988. I never got to meet Mr. Frank, but he touched everyone he ever met. A fitting tribute for songwriters and songs, who are trying to do the same thing.

The next year they each invited friends. The year after THEY invited friends. It grew into amazing preportions, with new people coming all the time. the local resturants and bars, became venues, would donate food to songwriters, the Florabama became the "Bluebird" central location. It grew to ten days, with dozens of venues. People planned their vacations around it, making reservations a year in advance. The hotels and condos got booked but there were still a LOT of them, so getting really good prices because it is off season still happens. The weather is amazing, 70-80 degrees during the day, 50's a night.

It became THE RIGHT OF PASSAGE for hit writers, their newcomer writing and artist partners, girlfriends, wives, relatives, friends all would come down. Sometimes it seems like every new artist, song, upcoming hit and wanna be were all coming in. At the pinnical about 8 years ago, around 600 writers showed up. All expecting to perform and be paid. Good old Joe Gilchrist paid for a lot of it out of his pocket. It has weathered hurricaines (Ivan and Katrina), bankruptcies, deaths (every year there is another memorial service for one of us that has left the earth). 

It is part show, part family reunion. Once you are a part of it, you never want to miss it. A rite of passage for everyone who has an interest in songwriting. And you can hang out with writers, and artists, understand how they think, how they work, what the "behind the scenes' we all talk about here. You can see that new song that you are going to be hearing to death in the next year. I heard Allen Shamblin do "House that built Me" about 10 years ago.

                                                                 MAB INVOLVEMENT
In 1994, I was invited to be a driver for the Kinley's, the twin sisters that were my back up singers. They had been invited to the Festival. I had not been. We were playing together all the time and I was the leader and they were kind of scared to play on their own. So we all loaded up my van, left Nashville about 5 pm, and headed to Gulf Shores.  I had not been to that area since I was 12 so knew nothing about it, but had been hearing about the Florabama and the Festival for many years. A lot of my friends from Birmingham had been there. 
We arrived about 3 in the morning, found our hotel and went to sleep. The next day we hung out and immediately were made to feel at home. Volunteers, who comprise locals, people that come to visit for vacation, people like Phil, who want to see shows, and be a part, all would serve food, ice tea, goodie bags, drinks, you name it. There was a common area where you would sign in and everyone would gather for lunch, which was served from a local resturant every day. 

About half the people there we knew from Nashville. It was really just like Nashville South, and we all just did what we did normally. Except this time we had packed audiences on every show listening to every word. it was all like the Bluebird. We did one show at midnight on Saturday, at the Florabama, not realizing how important that was. The girls did the first half with me playing for them, and I did the second half with them backing me up. We became stars literally overnight. The next day we were approached by a lot of hit writers asking what was going on. This carried on back in Nashville, and was a part of why the Kinley's got their record deal. People heard about them and sought them out in town.

We were immediately booked the next year, 1995 and I was REALLY excited. The girls were too, but a little trepidatious and I didn't really know why. When i got there I found out. We were BOOKED EVERYWHERE! The first day, Saturday, we started at 9:00 in the morning in Pensacola for an arts and crafts festival. We then had a lunch performance at a hospital. Back to the Gulf Shores area for the daily gathering and a press interview. Then BACK to Pensacola, for a 7:00-9:00 show at a big courtyard of several clubs, THEN a 11:00 interview on a television show, following a midnight show at the Florabama. The girls were worn out and went home. I had to finish the three shows the next day by myself.

But I was hooked and have come down every year since, about 21 years. I am an interesting guy, in that I grew up in Birmingham, so many people I went to high school and knew from there are there. I am from Nashville and known as a "hot writer", in that I can be put into any situation and rise to the occassion that is needed.A loud bar? I'm your guy. The warm intimate performance, yep, got that too. The rowdy Alabama redneck crowd, that;s me. And I've had cuts, so I am kind of a legacy. Venues often request me over the "bore you to sleep' ballad writers. 

Starting about five years after my first show down there, I started playing the area during the season. And became a "local" at the Florabama. I played once a month until Hurricaine Ivan destroyed so much of the area, including the Florabama, and made it harder on the locals to bring down the Nashville people. But I did the festival even after Ivan where we had to be escorted by police to keep from being shot for looters. Was a tough year but we survived.

About five years ago, I wanted to bring more people into it, and since I didn't sleep all day like most songwriters, I decided to do my "songwriter tours" on the beach.  A bunch of the writers here, Od, Matt Hoggard, Becky, and several that have not been around for a while all came down and we had a grand old time. Wrote about four songs, and went to shows, met tons of hit writers, saw the thing like I always have. Was a great time. 
After that we could never quite put another group thing together because so quickly after summer vacation most people can't get off, and of course we have Thanksgiving and Christmas coming up. So it has to be something special you want to go for.

I usually do a few private appointments down there. I have a couple of regular people from that area who will get with me for critiques or to write, but most of the time I just hang out. Last year, Larry Singleton, Dani Jameson, Liz Moriondo, and Skye Clair and I wrote "THERE WAS A GUY" which is one of the hottest songs we all have. Dani is slamming that one out of the park all the time. So it is a working vacation.

I stay at the REGATTA, which is an older but very nice condo right on the beach. I am not going to give out prices, but it would, always make me look good if any of you would book something there. Like Phil had mentioned,if several people went in, it might be about $30 a night. They have some really big condos that easily sleep 8-10 people.

The shows go on every night. Usually an early one, 6:00-8:000 and a later one, 9:00-11:00. The writers are like a who's who of Nashville celebrity. Since it is the day after the CMA awards, you see both nominees and some times the winners down there. For newbies, there are open mics and usually if you keep your ears open, guitar pulls going on at people's rooms, and some common areas. 

And you get to rub elbows, hear stories, and make memories. It is truely my favorite time of the year. And everyone I ever met that played into my career, I met down there. A lot of people talk about the Key West festival and yes, I am sure that is cool. But Key west is very small with limited hotel rooms so it can be VERY expensive. And there seems to be an "US and THEM" mentality among a lot of the writers there, whereas FBISF, seems to be more inclusive.

So that is about it. I suggest if you are thinking about it, to converse now. It is something you need to plan for. But can be done affordably and you can have a great time that you will never forget. If anyone has interest and want me involved, let me know at MBarne4908@aol.com.

Enough for now.

MAB 

Ott, Peggy and anyone else this fits,

Understand that I am NOT dissing your efforts at all. You are doing what you can, and anything that you do to make your music better and more attractive is a good thing. Yes, we still have to have demos, which are DEMONSTRATIONS of our work. We have to have well recorded songs to attract people to us to begin with so yes, it is a bit of 'chicken and the egg" elements.

But what I am trying to do is get you to understand how everything that has to do with entertainment has changed. And this is true with television, pod casting, radio, motion pictures, and all types of music. The uses of music have expanded but the ways it is delivered have changed dramatically and forever.

I read the things you talk about and try to respond to them based upon the practical application I and pretty much every one who does this has gone through. most times, people who go and get expensive (or even inexpensive) demos, enter contests, put songs in film and television libraries, hire song pluggers, etc. are like the equivilent of saying "I make the most high definition, well crafted, polished television there is. It is 9 inches wide and is in black and white and of course, it doesn't get cable or satallite and has to use rabbit ears to get a reception on two channels, BUT IT IS AMAZING!!!" 

That is great and admirable. But no one would buy it because we live in a different world now. All televisions are large plasma color screens. They are all cable and satallite compatible, and all can pick up all kinds of signals from the thousands of cable and satallite services and channels out there. Black and white is just done.

Same with making the best horse and buggy. There is no way to get that on the Interstate.

So now, the DEMOS, done by writers writing their songs, crafting things by themselves, and putting them up on web sites or making up CD's, without having some artists, or inside people involved in them, are pretty much the horse and buggies and black and white televisions of this era.

My suggestion to you is to get out of the living room in your areas and try to find artists to work with. Yes, your demos will come into play at a certain time, but only AFTER you have established some relationships. And that is just not going to be done totally online. If it was, there would be several million less people trying to figure out how to do this. They would be doing it.

But of course this takes it back to a more basic issue with me. The Internet has put many many misconceptions out there. And it has also put out OVERREACHING EXPECTATIONS.  the entire idea that you can 'send something in' to anywhere and get it any attention whatsoever has never made any sense to me to begin with. It has never happened like that and never will.

Contests have always been a very small niche market. It is fun, and can be rewarding in some prizes, money, possibly a trip or other things, but very fleeting and song pitches for the "real music industry" have NEVER and will NEVER work that way. And contrary to all the claims of them, there is nothing that is going to change that.

So what I am doing is to try to get you to see that, WHY it has gotten that way and the realities of all of this. In that way, you won't go spending time, money, or effort in the wrong directions.

Now I could be 100% wrong and some major artist or song come out of a contest, or someone puts a song out there and it become and institution. It can always happen and sometimes things like that do. But usually there is much more involved than most people realize and is not as cut and dried and NEVER just about "sending something in."

So what I am trying to do that here is just educate you the best I can. you can take it or leave it. But it is NOT PERSONAL. Just reality.

MAB 

Thanks for the Frank Brown info and history of it - interesting! I was going to ask about the difference between that and the Key West songriters festival but you covered that. It sounds great. I will talk it over with my husband, but, chances are we are not going to be able to swing it right now. 

Melissa,

If someone were to ask me what would be the most important thing they could do in their career, making a trip to Nashville, Frank Brown, or Key West, it would ALWAYS BE FRANK BROWN. You can see a lot of writers, get to hang out with them and afford everything much cheaper than anywhere else.

Key West is a major tourist town, pretty hard to get to, and VERY EXPENSIVE. The tourists are always there so you have hundreds of thousands of people elbowing each other around and really wanting to hear Jimmy Buffett stuff, not songwriters. They are quite rowdy and really couldn't care less about music outside of background for them to chase members of the opposite sex.

It is sponsored by  BMI and while ASCAP and SESAC writers do go, it is a very inside event to be a part of. If you are not a hit writer or artist, you are probably not going to be able to play. They hang out in their own enclaves, and use it as a business expense. So they are going to use it for their own networking, expensive meals, golf and boat trips and really are not going to stick around talking music to outside or amateur writers. It is pleasure but they have to use it to do business as well.Too expensive not to.

And a lot of times when you see the writers, you might wish that you had not seen them in that state. The Island atmosphere, endless alcohol, (and many other substances), the 'What happens in Key West STAYS in Key West" atmosphere doesn't make for the most conducive background for congent conversation. Oh, you would do WONDERFUL in Key West, Meh, but I don't know if that would be what you would want to do, and they would much rather your husband stay home. 

Look, I have been as wild as some of these people in my own travels, but I never quite got out of control and a lot of my friends seem to have a problem with control down there. It happens at Frank Brown also, but you don't have to be around it as much. Always somewhere else to go. Key West is much smaller and much more.... active. Sometimes RADIOACTIVE.

I have enjoyed my times in Key West. I played the HOGS BREATH five times over three years. It is a great place. But again, when you start paying for everything, are not getting paid to be there, and are not involved in all of the "official" goings on, it can become quite a different animal. If I had a limited budget and time frame, it is probably the LAST place I would go. Just a different kind of beast.  

But like everything, that is just MY OPINION.

MAB 

Melissa, and anyone else cnsidering going to Frank Brown. Last year, I volunteered to work the lunch service at Florbama almost every day. And I worked the doors most nights; ALL night (from 7pm till closing) The days i was not scheduled to work the lunch service, I still showed up, and every day I was put to work. It was an AWSOME time!!! I met so many hit writers I can't begin to name them all. I got to talk to them at lunch and at the evening performances. I even went to one of the guitar pulls across the street. The Florbama has an open mic there every afternoon from around noon to 4pm. I was able to at least listen to all of them. And even though the open mic's are mostly entry level guys like me, some of the hit writers would use that venue to practice for their scheduled evening shows. I was able to do 3 or 4 sets, and even was on stage with a girl from Nashville on one of them.

So, what I'm trying to say is, if you REALLY, REALLY, want to "hang" with Nashville hit writers in a very relaxed casual atmosphere, FBISF is THE PLACE to do that!! For 10 days and nights!!

The only other venue I know of is the Durango Songwriter Festival in Colorado, where everybody; Writers, A&R, publishers, are all in the same hotel resort in the middle of the mountains for a weekend. I got to meet publishers, Ralph Murphy from ASCAP, hit writers, record producers,. and got to have drinks with them. BUT, it is COLD in Durango in October! And it SNOWS!

As of right now, I WILL be at FBISF for the full 10 days. Actually, I will be there probably starting that Moday, because there will be a volunteers meeting that week, a special dinner for us, and the local writers will kick the FBISF off starting at least on the 6th. PLUS, Cathy will host her Monday open mic. OH, ALSO OD, if you work the Florbama doors at night, you get 2 free $3.00 drink tickets per night! Their Bushwackers are VERY potent,and with $3.00 off... Oh Yea!!

phil g.

MAB, I'm not sure I totally agree with the cost difference between FBISF and Nashville. I stayed at Microtell in Gulf Shores last year for $35.00 a night, and I can get that same rate in Nashvlle. THE BIG DIFFERENCE between FBISF and Nashville is, you don't have to "go find" the Nashvile hit writers. Just hang out a Florbama and they will find you! Even during Nashville's prestigeous Tin Pan South week, you STILL have to "go find" the writers.

If you're thinkin about goin to Nashville this year, "Faget about it!" Come on down to Florida/Alabama in November. You will be blown away and make memories that will last a life time!!

phil g.

Phil,

I wasn't talking about the cost difference in Nashville and FBISF. I was talking about FBISF and Key West. Nashville can be pricy these days. The "It" city comes with some high costs. If you can get that rate I'd take it. Most places have gone up to over $100 per night around town.

MAB 

LOL MAB!  [I ]  would take it. You probably would not. The biggest complaint I had about the hotel I stayed at was all the uninvited guests that tried to sleep with me and eat the snacks I had in the room. Even had them move me to a new room one time.

MAB,

Man that was a phenomenal answer. What a wealth of knowledge... you never cease to amaze. I swear sometimes your mind is an encyclopedia of musical history. Thanks for taking the time to explain it. As you know I learned form you to be a student of "crowd study" and often feel sorry observing seasoned performers sitting next to a someoe maybe a bit greener wanting to play out and they are still singing the same song as the waiters/waitresses are beginning to clean up and closing out tabs... Sometimes people wear there frustraition on their faces on the stool next to them, some conceal it better than others, thanks for the info.

Meh,

You are spot on, that's a problem of mine, I'm Texan, I talk slow,I sing slow, one I recorded yesterday that begged my original question to MAB I kept my usual lane in the verses and did tried to kick up the speed a bit through the chorus, it came out to 3:47 so I'm fine with it... The kids work schedule is so much different now, poor Makenzie got strep throat and I was getting ready for bed at 9:45pm I was called out on a major water line break under a major road in town by 11pm I was literally up to my shirt collar at my neck in muddy water feeling blind for a busted poly pipe to put a squeeze off on. I clocked out at 2:30am and was in bed by 4am had to wake up at 5:40am and take just Bryson to preschool... back to work at 7am this morning!!!!

Our city is having our First Annual Tomball Music Festival this Saturday, pretty neat feeling as I have written now with all the acts on the lineup but one guy, which oddly enough is best friends with my supervisor now, camping buddies with a co-worker, so I won't have to "gherm" lol so hopefully an appt. will come in the near future with him!!!! LOL Gonna be fun bringing the whole family it's running from 10:30am - 8pm or later... a few thousand folks are expected to pass through, throughout the course of the day, got sent all access Bud Light passes courtesy of one band they were able to get me so I'll get to take the kiddos backstage to hang out with the bands and artists stuff, so I'm looking forward to a great time, gonna be great to have Katie out there too!!! Always fun having her see what I do at my "other job" the one that pays nothing. hahahahah but I love it!!!

the kids out... God Bless

Hey Kid,

Good to hear you are so dedicated to your job.  I have to say that I've done a little bit of that type work and I didn't like any part of it.  Any job that starts out with water, mud, and a shovel is not good at all.  I realize a backhoe does the bulk of the digging but as you know, they can only get so close to that pipe before the poor bastard with the shovel has to take over.  Yuck!!!   For those who have never had to dig in mud, there is an adhesive effect that the mud does not want to seperate.  It takes a strong back and a lot of pressure before you hear that suction sound and pull out a shovel full of mud.  Then you strain your guts to lift that heavy mass to the top of the hole; only to find the mud doesn't want to come off the shovel.  You have to lift and shake just to get most of it to let go.  That is truly hard work.  I'm glad it's you and not me. By the way, I sure hope Sissy gets to feeling better.

Now, about you wanting to sing your songs out in public.  That is fine but without learning the guitar you will have to depend on a guitar player to perfom the rhythm for you.  Maybe you'll be able to do that once or twice just to get it out of your system.  The only other caution I would give you is your voice.  You have a very nice voice but your mechanics need some work.  That means your timing, pitch, and enunciation.  Keep doing what you are doing because practice is what it takes, and maybe even some coaching along the way.  We have spoken about that before.  Just be careful not to rush things and try to play out before you are ready.  That's all I'm sayin.

Have fun at the festival, good for you knowing and writing with most of the artist's that will perform.  You're certainly trying and your hard work is paying off for you, even if it's only writing more songs with more artist's.  That is a good thing.

OD

Oh, try to clean up a little bit before your next co-write.  According to your photo, that last one got a little messy.  
It looked like you were trying to co-write a song about mud wrestling.   I hope it wasn't with a guy.  Ha!!!

Hey KevMo,

Good to finally hear from you Brother.  I hope you don't continue to read along and not join in.  Do you have any new songs posted the Old Dog can pick over and give you a soft critique???   Ha!!!   Truly, I really like your songs and the background instruments you add to them.

OD

OD,

LOL, you are spot on... guess who the poor bastard with the shovel is??? Take a guess???? Hahahaha 100 degrees today heat index of like 108... i'm loving every minute of it. Sissy is better today, thanks for asking.

OTT,

For what it's worth brother to dove tail off of OD's comidment about my voice, I am no singer by anymeans, one song i wrote a guy who loves the "tech" side of music is playing guitar over my vocals, while I still practice my guitar and am getting a bit better, I just don't care what I sound like anymore, I know my vocal ability, but honestly I don't care what people think. I am singing my songs now with the help of a guitarist and good friend I've made who lives close by, i also write with his adult daughter on occasion. I just try to sing it well enough to get the point across.

I had the pleasure of talking with Larry Beaird for a good length of time following a wkshp a while back, i will say he did a "before and after" of songs that were honestly TERRIBLE sounding sent to him, and used the bad ones as an example to how he could make a good demo, sure it was part selling his business but it was amazing, the acapella vocals that sounded like a donkey singing in a horse barn, and then when a good demo singer was on it made a great impact, HOWEVER to what MAB was saying, as someone myself who constantly writes with artists, I do just what you mentioned actually, and it works quite well, if you do decide to try to venture out and write with artists, you'll see the same affect as what happened with Mr. Beairds demos, but the cool thing is it is an artist now performing it out!!! And I bet a dollar to a doughnut that artist if worth their salt will tweak it to their own little style and most times suprise you for the better!

I did just that with a song I just wrote with a sixteen year old girl i finished last week called "E-Cigarette" I sent her a terrible (or my best effort) acapella which I was pleased with the sound/melody, she liked the song, we made an appt. she practiced prior to my arrival and had tweaked the melody and her voice just made the song something I never expected, I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS give the artist "artistic freedom" to sing it how the feel comfortable, a respectful artist will try to hold true to how you meant it, because obviously even though it was a little acapella melody of my terrible voice I get the point across, then bang, they are a cowriter, tweaking the melody, playing making suggestions, then boom we're friends, and all of a sudden IF it's good enough and something they can use, I get the pleasure of hearing it live. Satisfaction of knowing they liked it enough to stake their reputation on, which i have no risk as a lyricist. That to me is validation, and it's free, and didn't cost a dime, just BRING GOOD LYRICS AND GOOD IDEAS. I've found so many times that's all an artist wants, Build your reputation as a someone who can ADD VALUE every... single... time. You will become in demand, but as MAB said I don't really see it coming from just shooting off demos. Get with the people out singing, and write with them. You'll find much more success, I'd prefer seeing my name in the TOP 100 Texas Radio, than a "shoutout" or something in a monthly e newsletter.

Please know I'm knocking you or trying too, I really congratulate you cause you are right getting nominated like you have means your songs are a cut above the rest. But the best thing I can say MAB has taught me is just, (to use a term now in my new job lol) "You just got gotta grab a pipe wrench, jump in the hole and get dirty" The only way to learn, get in with workers (artists) they'll respect you much more, than just standing outside the hole handing them wrenches, and tools from the top staring down on the guys doing the dirty work. Eventually they'll want you on their team.

Write with the artist, you ain't gotta shoot for the big names, if you are like me, I'm CONFIDENT i can HELP anyone... I'll write with a person as green as they come, cause I feel like I can offer them a good song... You can too, just seek them out, no matter the experience level, get your stuff heard, then the bigger fish will take notice, and it's a chain reaction, an upward movement, but you must be constant, consistent, and considerate. Treat them all the same no matter how seasoned or new they may be.

Hope that helps at all man... just the kids two cents. Like MAB says... gotta write with the artist or you are kind of pissing in the wind this day and age. I think we all hate that aspect of the business, but you gotta bend in order not to break, it frustrates me too, but if it's how I have to do it, it's how I'll do it till one hits. Or that's the dream we all have at least! Take care brother OTT...

                                                     FRANK BROWN INFO

I was contacted by a couple of people wanting the Regatta's infor in Gulf Shores:

 REGATTA RENTALS AND SALES
317 E. Beach Blvd.
PO Box 6829
Gulf Shores, Al. 36547 

Ha, I am keeping all my songs secret from you!   Just kidding, your reviews are always helpful and honest.  I have just been doing more "quirky" tunes lately (maybe I always have!).   I'll post something when I have something to add to the conversation.

Like when we are in the "pick on Ott" mode (ha, ha).   I guess Ott is a bit like me, we sail in the direction we want to go no matter the prevailing winds.   The difference might be that I am 100% opposed to spending any money on demos,  I agree with MAB on this one. If there is no recording artist involved in the write, then what is the point except to spend money.  If I can sing and play on my own recordings, then anyone can -- unless they are tonally/rhymically super-challenged (and there are a few out there like that).   It took me quite awhile to learn to sing in-key lead vocals (and for harmony stuff I just use melodyne!).

                                                        PRACTICAL APPLICATION

Hey Kev, good to see you. Now here we go tilting the "OTHER WAY.' I am not saying "don't do demos." We have to have demonstrations of our work at all times. If we are trying to get our songs out there they are going to have to be well represented. We continually make contacts, draw people to our web sites, even still get the opportunity for pitches. So they are still as important as ever. Actually probably MORE important, since so much is done online.

 And I don't want to be seen as "picking on Ott, or Peggy. They are simply the one's "doing demos" without artists right now. I am more talking about the future than what they have already done. That is done. We have to look to the future. 

My suggestions are tempered by reality. In this day and age, ALL ARTISTS are writers now. they don't just sit around 'looking for songs." They think they can write them all, whether they can or not. And the higher level (signed or about to be signed) artists are going to be surrounded by their own songs, the people who promote,.produce them, (AND SIGN THEIR PAY CHECKS), so those are gone. 

It has my overall practical applcation:

#1. Spend as much time seeking out, meeting, networking with ARTISTS, as you do writing. Networking is the key.
#2. Write with artists or established (better connected) writers as you can. Prioritize.
#3. Write a lot of songs and make sure they are TESTED OUT. Perform or have them peformed. Play them for friends privately. Get as much feedback as you can.
#4. The top songs that stay around for a while, I would suggest months, and still work live, with other people, web sites, THOSE ARE THE ONES YOU DEMO.
#5. Never demo MORE THAN THREE SONGS at a time. Unless you are an artist doing your own CD project.
#6. Always write,always perform, always network.

What Peggy, Ott, Kevin, and others have done is not wrong or bad. But they are operating in a vacumn and need to get out of the living room before they spend a lot more money or time on songs. That is all I'm saying.

In everything, I sit around, read what you guys talk about in your lives,  what you are doing, where you are trying to pitch songs, the companies you are talking about AND the reactions you are getting. Nothing. Silence. Crickets. All of that should tell you something. Unless you are planning on ponying up money, don't expect a lot from anyone. You are not performers out there building fan base. So you are NEVER going to be a priority no matter how good your songs are.

I have to do EVERY SINGLE THING I AM TELLING YOU TO DO. I have to work to get recordings financed. I have to work with multiple artsits to help them move their career along and make common sense decisions. I have to help them adjust to new information and situations that arise. I found out yesterday that one of the artists I work with could very soon have some VERY interesting things going on. So I have to plan around that as well.

And as far as money, I have studios coming out of the WOODWORK trying to get me to bring my artists over there. Thney want people to record with them, and even sometimes go as far as to try and knock me out of the way. That has happened plenty of times over the years. I have a number of "friends" (I use that term loosely) who always want ME to do something for THEM, but it never seems to come back the other way. On the other hand, I have some other Friends, who constantly promote me.  I try to do the same.

So those are my total feelings on demos. I don't really consider that we are doing so much DEMOS, anymore as RECORDINGS, which are radio ready, and can promote a career.

If you write a song by yourself, you only have YOU to pay for it, promote it, perform it, move it forward.
Write it with someone else, particularly an artist, while you may give up some control, you have people to share in all the elements. You have someone to perform and promote it as well as yourself. You have multiply your chances. You have someone else to put it on their web site, their CD, their potential YOU TUBE efforts.
You multiply your chances.
UPPING THE LEVEL OF YOUR ODDS. That is the whole ball game! 

MAB 

Yes, my point was that it doesn't make any sense for me to pay for pro demos (or recordings) at this point because I am not writing with artists or in the game.  Unless I want to do a "vanity" type thing, of course.   If I was writing with an artist and he/she wanted to put a CD out, I would see it to my benefit to help with the recording costs.  

Kevin,

Now that is a different deal altogether and one that I know well. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a "vanity project.' If you are a writer and want your songs to sound the best they can. Writing what is in your heart, getting them done first rate in the studio, is a very good reason to record. A celebration, if you will.

It would just be better if they wrote them with artists involved. Taht way you STILL have your vanity project, you have the artist's version (nothing wrong with multiple versions) backing tracks, (the songs without vocals), and a relationship started with all concerned. Just seems to me killing a lot of birds with a very few stones.

MAB