MAB Q&A

One of our discussions has been about genre' "dating". Edie R has some really cool songs in open mic he has labeled "traditional country". They are country rock in sound. I would date them back to the Waylon and willie, Alabama, Eddie Rabbit time frame. Interesting that is considered "traditional" today. And, I'll bet, if you went back to that time in country music, songs by Loreta Lynn, Little Jimmy Dickens, Hank Williams Sr., etc, would have been considered "traditional". What you wanna bet, 10-20 years from now Jason Aldean, Kenne Chenesy, Tim McGraw will be consiered "traditional"?

phil g.

That is very correct Phil.

There has always been an ongoing war within the country music community. In 1926, a man named Ralph Peer, was traveling around the US with a portable tape recorder recording local folk groups. He landed in Bristol Tn./Va, where he recorded a man named AP Carter, his wife and her sister. That was Mother Maybell Carter, the mother of June Carter Cash, and Johnny Cash's Mother in Law. On that session were things like Wildwood Flower, and many other standards of country songs from the Appilachian mountains. On the same session they recorded a very distant relative of mine, Jimmie Rodgers, 'The Singing Brakeman, who put the "blue yodel" into country. 
It was called "The Bristol Sessions" and was the first 'official" country records. Sold 4 million copies in the depression and made them all stars. But there was always a fight between the camps. The "Hillbilly' faction, which was related to Bluegrass, from the hills, and Jimmie, doing that "Damn N**GER" music, from the Mississippi Delta and the train songs of the black people. 
There was always an argument over what was and was not country. 

As time went on, World War II brought sounds of "Texas Swing, which was the same as Big Band music of Glenn Miller and Tommy Dorsey, except twin fiddles and steel guitars instead of saxophones and clarinets. That was not considered country by the purests, who thought anything that had dancing was "not country." 

When Hank Senior came in, he infuriated Roy Acuff, and others, particularly with his drinking and behavior, which they got him fired from the Opry, and many thought he was a "hillbilly", not country.

In the 60's when Buck Owens brought drums into the Opry, he shocked the Hank Senior people because he was "rockabilly.

In the 70's with the "outlaw movement" of Willie and Waylon, they were condemed for being too rock.

Same with Alabama in the 80's.

Garth Brooks and Shania Twain in the 90's.

Rascall Flatts and Taylor Swift in the 2000's.

Jason Aldeen and Eric Church now. 

Every generation condems the generation that comes after it as not being true to the art form. The reality is that they all are. People don't listen to what is going on in the other formats, as their's changes.

The only thing consistant is the change. And the complaining about the change.

MAB 

Garth is getting into the digital age:  http://www.savingcountrymusic.com/what-is-garths-ghosttunes-and-is-it-a-game-changer  

I appreciate your critiques, but I don't hold them in that high of an honor (ha, ha).  Sometime I agree with you and sometimes I don't.   I like listening to "coherent" story songs, but I am not that big of a fan of writing them.   If I get a good story song, great, if not -- it is not that big a deal to me.   If you look at my favorite bands to listen to nowadays (Lumineers, Head and the Heart, Counting Crows,...), that is really the sound I would like to emulate.   By the way, I keep trying to listen to country radio where you do expect the story to be king -- but it ain't happening there at all.   Commerical country radio has hit its "in-between" phase, they are rolling out the retreads with really bad lyrics -- and it is very popular!!!  

As for the open mic, if they don't want songs in their infancy then they shouldn't call it Open Mic!   If someone crosses me off their list because of my open mic tunes, then they just saved themselves time and effort (ha, ha).

P.S.  you are really obsessed with this BIAB thing.  You always mention it even when I don't use it.  You do realize that most studios use bass/drums samples to get a tune started?   I even saw that way back when I did that group tour with the MABster.

Kevin, I don't know what kind of rhythm tracks BIAB has, but I think the drum tracks studios use are actual live drum recordings. MAB will have to comment on that statement since he is always in a studio.

phil g.

I don't mean final recordings.  I am talking about drum samples and bass samples in the "infancy" recordings.   The BIAB drums and bass samples are also from live recordings.   I don't want to get into a big BIAB discussion here, MAB's opinion on BIAB is well known and I don't want to poke that bear.   

OH NO! I do not wish to discuss BIAB either. BUT, since I made the comment about what kind of drum tracks Nashville stuios use, I thought MAB might want to agree or correct me on that statement.

phil g.

What are you guys talking about? I don't remember saying much about band in a box. I am all for using whatever gets you writing and get your ideas flowing. Band in a Box is something some people use and do fine, just like Masterwriter and all those other programs. Each have their own usage. I don't particularly care for it as an end result tool and think that songs should be demoed properly at the right time. But up until then,  you do whatever you need to.

And yes, Kevin, Open mic is supposed to be for unfinished works. I don't think I have ever told any of you NOT to use whatever works for you. I believe I always talk about Activity, being the most important thing. If band in a Box helps you, go for it.

I think what I am talking about is for web sites and things that represent you to people that don't know you, not as much for this particular web site. For that I would suggest sounding more professional. 

I think that is what I've always talked about. And doing things like that for pitch purposes.

MAB 

As to what is used in the studio, again, it varies. Some people will use guitar only work tapes, some will do more developed things, it really has no particular rhyme and reason. Most of the drummers are going to use their own chops and even if they are programming things, what is brought to them is of no real consequence.

If I've given the perception that I am against ANY tools that you might find useful, I apologize. What I am usually talking about is the PRESENTING of those songs to the public. for that I think you have to write more songs, get basic recordings,and present your best ones.

I do the same thing. I go from work tapes on my computer to more developed acoustic guitar vocals, then to fully produced. In some of the things I do, the stripped down acoustic version works best for the songs, particularly when I am doing songwriting festivals and things that call for more stripped down product.I even have one CD, "NAKED", which is pretty much all acoustic stuff.

MAB

Phil,  Thanks for mentioning my songs on open mic. I hope it encourages others to take a listen. You are correct in that I may have the genre mislabled on some songs. I was just reading an online article about a local venue that is beginning to draw performers from Nashville. I hope they someday have the MAB there as he is indeed a great performer. Here is a link to that fine article:   http://www.georgia-country.com/artistofthemonth.php ; It mirrors a lot of the things MAB says.

Eddie R

Eddie,

That article doesn't show up. Why don't you tell us what it says. 

Eddie, you didn't misslabel your songs at all. I was commenting on the fact that if this were 1985-1995, those songs would be considered "modern/contemporary" country. 10-15 years from now, todays contemporary country will be "tradidiontal" country.

MAB, I guess what I wanted a comment on is, if I went to a studio to do a "full demo", would the drum track be a live drummer or a recorded loop track from a live drummer? I've never been in a studio, and it would be interesting to know how a demo tape is made. Are the different sections in different rooms recording every track at the same time, or do they record the drums first, then the rhythm guitar, the other rhythm instruments, then lead instruments, then vocals? I think my next trip there (probably not until Feb-Mar next year) I would like to go to a studio for a demo. We could do one of RiDawn's and one of mine/ours. I'll be contacting you in person in Jan I guess to discuss details.

phil g.

Phil,

It would always depend on the studio and the budget. A multi instrumentalist (one person doing more than one track) will usually program the drums first. This would often be samples of live drums. Then they would add acoustic guitar, bass, electric guitars, keyboards, vocals, background vocals, mix.
it usually takes about an hour per instrument. An hour for vocals. An hour or more to mix. This usually takes longer because one person is doing it.

On sessions like I do are live drums, bass, rhythmn guitar keyboards, usually piano. Then overdubs on guitars, any keyboards, strings, etc. would be done at the same time depending on the budget. You factor in about $75 for any extra musicians, dobro, bango, fiddle, guitars, whatever. Then lead vocals and background vocals. Mix. 
Takes about twenty minutes for the tracks, thirty minutes for overdubs, and hour for vocals. And hour to mix. 

For me there is nothing like three-four guys playing at the same time. They are thinking about their parts and how it works within the song. Solo guys tend to lose context sometime and it gets mechanical for me. But you work what you do. Sometimes it is about the same amount of money and of course you have the time factor involved. If someone like yourself just had a couple of days in town, it would be worth the $50-$75 extra to get it done in one gulp.

Almost nothing is going to be done on a "pre-recorded drum loop." Those are the real cheap studios that make the song conform to their drum tracks. I have no use for that.

MAB 

Thanks MAB! We'll talk at Frank Brown, then I'll talk to you again when I plan my next Nashville trip.

phil g.

Here is the article I referred to: (GC is Georgia Country, SQ is Shelia Quattlebaum)

Our Sept Artist of the Month is Shelia Quattlebaum and we're also profiling her new venue, East of Austin in Villa Rica, Georgia. She was our Artist of the Month in March of 2012. GC revists Shelia and wanted to check out her new venue, East of Austin.

GC: Shelia, bring us up to speed of what you've been doing as an artist this past year.

SQ: Unfortunately, I haven't been doing a lot of performing or writing this year. Been extremely busy opening up a music venue, which opened the end of June. I just performed there for the first time on August 23rd. I put together a Linda Ronstadt Tribute Show and had some fantastic people onstage with me that night. It was a pleasure performing with Cindi Hall for the first time along with Gary McCoy and Gerald Craig, and bassist, Claudio Cordaro. I had played with Claudio before. We had a great show and our venue's first packed house since opening. My next show there will be the end of November, as I am putting together an all-female songwriters' show.

GC: You and your husband, Mike, recently opened East of Austin in Villa Rica. Can you tell us when you started thinking about a live music venue and how things came about?

SQ: Mike and I had been thinking about it and wanting to do something like this for many years. We finally just went for it, so to speak. Quite a few people have heard this story already, but back at the beginning of this year, we were in our living room moving furniture around trying to see how many people we could fit in there for a house concert. I had been contacted by some friends in Nashville that wanted to come down and do one at our home. So as we were moving this furniture around, Mike looks at me and says something like, "Why are we doing this? Why don't we just open up our own venue." And then he looked at me and firmly said, "It's now or never." So, 7 months later and a lot of hard work, here we are! As a performer, myself, I've seen through the years the opportunities to play to an attentive audience dwindle. The artist is in direct competition with too many things while onstage or sadly just used as background noise a lot of times. East of Austin has created the atmosphere for the artist to come in, step up on our stage, and play for an audience that came to hear them.

GC: Were there any other venues that inspired you and how or why?

SQ: Well, of course the Bluebird Café in Nashville and Eddie's Attic in Atlanta. The Bluebird for obvious reasons, and Eddie's Attic is well-respected. For the songwriter, the Bluebird is the ultimate. I have had the honor of playing there a couple of times and sharing the stage with some big-time hit writers, and oh, what a thrill. I am extremely happy to say that so far, East of Austin's audiences have been right up there with the Bluebird's. We had Nashville's own, Buddy Jewell and Eddie Heinzelman, come down on August 3rd, and I think they were very surprised at how quiet and respectful our audience was that night. They loved it and said they would love to come back. Mike and I just wanted a place where the music fan could go out and actually hear the songs without background noise or crowd chatter going on and without the music being too loud. Don't like to go out and see TVs hanging above or back of the stages. We wanted a place where the artists and the songs were the focus. I think we have that! We also want our place to have the feel of maybe being out in Austin or Memphis. When you walk in the room, you get it. You leave loving the show, the experience. At least we hope so!

GC:You've been a very active songwriter over the years. Why do you think it's important to have a place for artists to showcase original material?

SQ: Well, because otherwise, you're left singing the songs you've written to yourself, your mama, or your dog in the basement or bedroom. You might can occasionally "throw" one in on a regular gig, but odds are the crowd noise will be so loud they will never hear that it is one you've written, and they will leave never ever knowing you were singing your heart out up there onstage, particularly on that song because it actually means something to you. It's important because it will give you confidence to keep writing also. I know a lot of songwriters that say they will forever write and enjoy it even if no one ever hears any of their songs. I'm happy for those writers. I wish I was like that, but I'm not. The writing part, I get; I just have that need in me to perform and play for someone. Original material needs to be heard at specific types of venues also. There aren't many out there. I am proud to say that, although East of Austin does a variety of different types of shows with originals and covers, our venue is definitely a great one for the songwriter.

GC: Have you seen country songwriting change over the years? Not necessarily what is on top 40 radio, but has the "style" of writing changed and if so, how?

SQ: Definitely. There are a lot more words in the songs now. Take for example, Willie Nelson's, "Blue Eyes Crying InThe Rain" and compare that to one of today's top songs. Count the words. Talking about getting a face and tongue work-out after singing one of the songs on the radio these days! Ha!! Today's songs seem to be written mainly for a more age-specific group also, which I don't really agree with. Makes every song sound the same and with the same words in them. Musically, the style has tremendously changed.

GC: To anyone who has not been to East of Austin yet, what would a new attendee experience?

SQ: A very intimate experience. Up-close and personal. The stage and the performers are right there at you. The audience is quiet and taking in every single note sung or played. Like I already said, we want to create a unique atmosphere. I definitely know it is something different for our West Georgia area.

GC: Any big-name songwriters or artists planned for East of Austin in the coming weeks or months?

SQ: Yes. On October 25th we will have hit songwriters, Byron Hill and Wil Nance. Byron's had cuts by Clay Walker, Tracy Byrd, and Alabama, just to name a few, and Wil wrote "She's Everything" by Brad Paisley and many more. I am in the process of starting to book for 2015 right now, and I have a lot of names on the list I'd love to bring to our area! We can't, however, do it without the support from our communities and from the music communities.

GC: As a venue owner, what would you say are your biggest challenges?

SQ: I am the first to admit I am super-picky. I'm not looking for just a great singer or a great musician. I'm looking for the person who can entertain an audience also. Our audience is not smoking, drinking, (as we are an alcohol-free venue at this time) or dancing, so the performer has to keep their attention for at least 90 minutes if you are the headliner. We are a listening venue, but we are not a boring listening venue. We can also be defined as a performance venue. So, it's hard to find people who can do both. I was thinking one of our greatest challenges was going to be keeping the audience more on the quiet side, but so far they have been great! Right now we are only doing two shows a month, the 2nd and 4th Saturdays, so advertising and keeping the shows in people's minds is a big challenge. With football season here, that is direct competition. You have to hope that everyone out there is not a die-hard sports fan. (ha)

GC: What are your plans long-term for East of Austin?

SQ: There's so much talent in our area. There's no reason we can't become another Austin, Texas or Nashville. We would like to put East of Austin on the music map and be one of the most sought-after venues where artists want to play and people want to go. Eventually, we will be doing more than two shows a month. Right now we are focusing on spreading the word and building our audience. I want to see sell-outs for every single show we book! Please visit our website at: www.eastofaustinlive.com

Eddie,

Part of the issue is  explaining the problem clearly

Eddie Minyard , although  the major owner is  only  one admin and is not always available. We try to   operate a round the clock admin service so issues are  responded to  and addressed  quickly.

If you  dont want to  have to go theough the login procedure each  time, save your password and ID   so that  you auto log in each  time you get to the site.

Without know what system  you  run and which  browser I cant  be specific but typically  you will get  a " do you want to me remember this password"  type message.

What  you were trying to do was something the system  was never intended to do . If anyone could respond to messages, in 5 minutes flat the site  would be flooded with  spam and  other crap . Logging in is part of the protection  package .

 John Admin Australia

Thank you Eddie.

I heard from Shelia a few months ago. She was asking about playing her venue, I told her I would be happy to then never heard anything back from her. I wish them well and wish there were more of these, but they are very hard to make a go of. Mostly you put a lot of money and time into them and get very little out of them. Usually after about three years they fold. I hope this one is different.

I think the real key to doing this is not as much opening a venue as HOUSE CONCERTS or LIVING ROOM CONCERTS. that enables you to have a venue, once or twice a month in a home, and then living your life normally the rest of the time. When you have a "Venue", you have the responsibilities of a venue, insurance, parking, liscences, labor costs, advertising, etc.

A mistake people always make are "trying to be another Austin, Nashville" or anything. You need to be yourself. I hate that "we are another...." I don't think that does anything except bring comparrisons that can't be lived up to. Each one of those communtities built and developed over the years in their own way. The "Bluebird" is the Bluebird because it developed over 30 years by delivering quality product, and staying focused on music. it wasn't trying to be another "Exit Inn' or "Maude's Courtyard."

But you have to have some things to compare it to. I hope they do continue on. I would like to play there. Thjere are a couple of places around that would be great to play. Another one outside Chattanooga. There are several house concerts that would be great to get into. But many of those are booked solid for years. I'm booked in 2015 for one. You have to spend as much time learning about these places as it ever takes playing them. And of course, like everything, the ability to make any money is very difficult. For every place that says "They buy CD's. That only means three or four. It is not like you are going to go make a fortune off of CD sales.

It is a very tough time for songwriters musicians, etc. of all levels and stripes. It is just that EVERYBODY does this now. Every kid who is 12 years old and can hold a guitar. Every high school and college student, has a band or sits around dreaming of the big time. Every guitar player in a music store on Saturday's. And of course the Internet has them all. They all want to play these venues.

And for all the talk of private people loving music and wanting it, there are not as many as we would like to think. It is because they get all the music they want at the touch of a button or a mouse. That is why they don't buy anything. Why? They don't have to. We are more than willing to give it away because we have to.

But we all keep trying. That is about all you can do. Thanks for sharing that Eddie. I hope they can hang in there. Shelia is a very nice person. Wish her all the best.

MAB 

Eddie,

A note on Fast Eddie. His company is an emergency fast response team. He is at nearly every major disaster in the world . If you see an earthquake, a flood, terrosist attacks, famines, etc. he is probably there. I often wonder why a guy like that spends any time on a site like this but am glad he does. He is a great guy and a good songwriter. But when it comes to keeping the site going, it takes several people to administrate it. Stay in touch with John Westwood if you have any problems. Get his private email and send things to him if you have problems getting on the site. Everyone tries to do their best but it is hard to do with general life going on as well as trying to keep this going. Or you can send things to me privately and I'll see what I can do.
But through everyone we'll do our best to stay here and keep it going.

MAB 

Thanks John and MAB for explaining things to me. I am able to post now - if only I had something meaningful to say. I love reading the comments by MAB, OD and the Kid plus all the others but they inspire and amuse me the most.

Eddie R

Eddie,

We always exist on questions or comments people make. And you always have to remeber that a lot of people read but don't comment, so your experiences might help someone else. Speaking of experiences, since we are talking about the Frank Brown festival, it might be a good time for you to comment on some of your experiences and observations down there. You have been there for several years. What have you done, how did you find out about it, and what brings you back every year, even when you have had to deal with health issues?

MAB 

I learned about Frank Brown when I was down for the Shrimp Festival which occurs before FBISF. I bought one of the CDs they were selling and upon listening to it I thought the music on all the songs was exceptional but all the guys songs were whiney about their woman left them on account of their drinking, running around, and not earning any money and how they wanted them back. All the mens' songs sounded alike but the songs by the women were better and more upbeat. So the next year I applied and Reneada put me on the performer's list. They put me up in a really nice condiminum with two bedrooms and two baths and a kitchen. I was only booked to play one venue but played all the open mics I could find. After a few years of this my younger brother Robert wanted to join me so he applied and was accepted. One time we were both scheduled to play the Florabama on a Sunday for, I think it was two hours or maybe three. Saturday night Robert went back home because as a deacon he didn't want to miss church. That left me to play that slot by myself. I have a playlist I go by and I played every song on it and some of them twice. I didn't take any breaks because I was afraid I would lose my audience so I finally opened it up to any musicians in the audience to come up and play a few songs just like an open mic. And they did. Dona paid me and gave me two free drink tickets which I lost. I would have got a Bushwhacker but one of those things can give you a buzz on and make you slur your words. I come back every year because I love being a part of it and meet new people each time along with the regulars. I met Buzz Kiefer there. He is one more crazy dude with some great songs. Talk about women - that place is covered up with women. Cassie stopped me once and asked me if I thought it was normal for one of her boobs to hang down lower than the other two. I had no answer for that one and as you can see I haven't forgotten it. Gulf Shores is a little cooler and a little windier that time of year but it is still Paradise.

Eddie R

Very good. Any other performance, writers that stood out? Hear any songs or writers that went on to be huge, or did you get to hear any songs or writers that you always wanted to hear? Did you get to hang out and talk to hit writers at the hospitality room? 

One of the things I want people to understand is the ability to hang out and get to know the big time writers, hear their stories and songs. While it is always great to play, sometimes that is not going to happen as more and more people are booked on tighter schedules. But if people are interested in songwriting and never make it to Nashville, it would be a great idea to be able to see it up close and personal.

MAB 

WAIT MAB! We need to clear something up about the hospitality room. Eddie was a scheduled performer in his story, so YES HE could have gotten back there to hang with the other writers. But it is NOT open to the general public. Scheduled performers and FBISF volunteer staff are issued badges, and if you don't have one, you're not supposed to be back there. Last year, we only had a couple issues with general public trying to get back there. Only FBISF hospitality volunteers, Florbama staff, and scheduled performers are allowed back there during the lunch serving and at night during the performances. HOWEVER, the lunch service ends (I think) around 1pm, and some of the writers are still hanging around, so the general public could get back there then. At night, the volunteers usually were "off duty" around 11pm, so general public could get back there. ASSUMING the Queen wasn't garding the door LOL. Also, I think the writers can bring 1 or 2 guests? But I'm not sure about that.

I got a call from Linda the other day. They are still lookiong for a volunteer coordinator, and when they have one, I will be going over there for the meetings. As soon as I get "the rules" I'll post them here for everyone.

Phil,

Usually people are hanging around the bar areas outside the hospitality room, but it has not always been like that. Actually up until last year, many people would go to the hospitality room, not just to eat but to hang out. That has changed somewhat but most of the hit writers come through there. Also in many of the resturants, and bars, the writers are hanging around. They are at the other venues, there are a lot of opportunities to converse hear stories, etc. So yes, the general public, (at least writers who are interested in hanging around) actually are actually able to be around quite a bit.
Up until two years ago, the SILVER MOON, which was across the street, was the hospitality room. It was also a continuous bar, a liquor store, going on all the time, so it couldn't be closed to the general public.  

Now, there may be some things that change this year, but the ability to interact with the hit writers is part of the entire thing that keeps me going back. If that changes too much, then I would be uninterested in coming back again. The ability to interact with hit writers and provide a human face on songwriting IS THE purpose for the festival. If it loses that, all of them can close down as far as I am concerned. As they are very expensive to put on, if they lose that part of them they lose the unique nature of what they are about. Then there will be no more songwriter's festivals. I can assure you that.

MAB 

MAB, you make a good point. Like I said, the performers are all issued badges. So, I don't see why other writers such as myself, OD, Kevin, Melissa, or whoever, even though they are not performing or volunteers, should not be able to hang out back there. It's a simple matter of if you don't have a badge, you can't be served. I'll bring that up in the meetings. At night though, that is the Florbama scheduled performers kinda private room. At least that was how it was last year. Well, sort of. Sometimes there were more folks/writers back there than scheduled performers.

Interesting side note. The Florbama main room, which is what we are talking about, is a listening room, and the volunteers, and especially Lee Anne, are not shy about telling folks to be quiet. The writers and scheduled performers are in the hospitality room, which is right behind the main room bar. The entrance to that rom is an open doorway from the end of the bar. Last year they had a blanket over that opening to keep out some of the noise from the hospitality room. There were a few occassions where the guys in the back would get so loud, Lee Anne would have to go back and give them a lecture! LOL I even went back a few times, as the door monitor, to try and get them to be a little quieter. Had a stupid little sign that said something about "noise police" on it. Got a few laughs from the performers back there. It was all good fun!

phil g.