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MAB,
S.O.B. The Old Dog is facing a new life situation and I'm not sure how to handle it. It may not sound music related but it may reflect any future songs I may write.
My situation is this; I'm about to turn 65 in October and I'm being overwhelmed by all the junk mail from private insurance companies with offers to buy a suppliment plan to my Medicare I will become eligible for. S.O.B.
This requires some serious thought, and I don't know if I have any serious thought left in me. It's not as easy as realizing my beer supply is low and I need to make a beer run to my buddy Russell's Drive-Thru. S.O.B.
This decision is way beyond any decision I have faced in the past; like whether to demo our latest co-write at Jay's or not. S.O.B.
What if I end up in a Nursing Home and the nurses don't like country music. What if they are all Liberals and want to take their political frustrations out on a conservative old guy like me. Will they refuse to give me a bath; or make me listen to piped in pop music and ulternative rock music over the house PA system. What if I experience a stroke or a seizure and can't speak; will they consider it's not my medical condition that brought on my sudden medical behaviour but the music they are playing.
Awe MAB, I thought having to deal with your friend Missy was going to be a major dilemma; but I can see I have many more major issues to consider.
Can I depend on you and Philboy to come up and break me out of that place??? Philboy doesn't even have to drive his RV, he can drive his little Toyota and shove me in the back seat. Please have a couple of your CD's available to play and calm me down. I will be fine once we get closer to Nashville.
Oh, please note; I may invite a couple of the old gals to join us also. Pay no attention (and don't look) if they are wearing a gown open in the back, it may not be a pretty sight. However; I would never invite any of them that didn't love your music as much as I do. I realize it may be difficult for you to explain us to Debbie at the Commodore; but I'm sure she will be happy with you putting butts in the seats, even if they are not covered all that well.
Thank-You MAB for realizing there is more to life than just music. I will look forward to holding the old girl's wrinkled up hands as you sing your classic songs like "Can't Blame Nobody Like Me" and "Old Memories". Don't mind me if you sing your "Grand Opening" song and the Old Dog checks to make sure I don't have my gown on backwards.
OD
OD,
You do have interesting delimas. Breaking out of things are a much more "Texas" activity. I think you could use your Texas connection for that.
I'm here at the Mississippi Songwriter's festival. Got in yesterday, and went to the kick off party last night. This is MUCH smaller event than any of the others. About seven venues and only about 50-60 songwriters. All in a very tight location, around two or three blocks. So you can see a lot of the shows around.
My shows are all VERY LATE! 10:30-12:00. One tonight and one tomorrow. Then they have a huge guitar pull at this hotel that Elvis used to stay at. So it should be a lot of fun.
Will keep you apprised.
MAB
Here is something new you guys might find interesting. I have talked before about RENE MAUVE, the Mexican guy from Kalamazoo, that found Frankie Ballard and Dani Jamerson. Rene was in town this past week to do a few things with Dani and hang out with me. He actually has done a full Spanish Translation on TABLES AND CHAIRS. He has been doing it around Kzoo and now wanted to come down to do it in Nashville.
He actually recorded a version at Jay's this week that turned out really well.
So on Wed. we were at Bobby's Idle hour and I got him up to do part of it. Later on that night we did it again at Wood Newton's birthday party, and we did the full thing with me doing the English version. Works out really well.
So someone video taped part of it and put it on Facebook so I thought I'd post it here. Interesting to hear your songs done in a different language. Earlier someone did a German translation on it. so i guess soon I'll have a full CD of translations on one song. LOL!
Back from Mississippi. Was an overall good weekend, although at first was a bit odd.
I have had a reoccurring dream over the past couple of years. I am in some place, usually a resort area. It has been Spain, Australia, Italy (probably due to whatever I had to eat that night) I walk around and there are a lot of people hanging out in the streets, in bars, resturants, etc. I usually know several people in the groups. I will walk up to their groups, they will say "hey", then proceed to ignore me the rest of the time. Then they all walk away, and go somewhere else, inviting everyone to go but me. I then go over to other groups and the same thing happens. It is very weird.
The first of the Miss. festival was just like that. Saw a lot of people I knew, different groups, different people, who I knew. Then after saying "Hi", they went back to their conversations as if I wasn't there. Did that quite a bit. A little later in the weekend it changed but the first couple of days was like that everywhere I went. Seemed a lot like I was not exactly welcome there.
You see, this has been a little different than the other festivals I have participated in. Most festivals have invited me, followed up, made sure I was involved with them, made sure I had lodging and acted like I was a valuable part of the festival. This one didn't. I had to contact them dozens of times before they responded to me. And then, after they had asked me to participate in the teaching aspect, they never even acknowledged me in that capacity. A lot of it is political.
Some smaller events like these are not really thrilled with the "Nashville element" coming into their midst. They are sort of in their own element and don't care for the "outsiders." But they want the name credibility. So it is a fine line they have to walk. I do understand it. Just wish they would tell you that.
But it worked out fine. After a rough couple of days, I actually picked up another prime show, and did three in all. There was a lot of reaching out to me after that and I hope we can put it together in a little more solid form. Would really like to teach some writers and am sure I could be helpful to them. Will see.
But overall I had a good time. Of course, they were all worried about the gas thing. We had a pipeline leak up in Alabama and it has created some problems getting gas into some of the stations here in Tennessee. I had no problems and gas was actually very reasonable down there.
So that is it for now. Hope everyone is well. Now, it will be getting ready for Frank Brown.
MAB
Hey MAB. Glad everything worked out for you at the MSF. We had not talked about the festival all year, and I just totally forgot about it. If I'd had time to plan for it, I would have loved to have gone. I did have a pretty good time last year, but there just wasn't much (for me) to do during the day. Only one of the venues (that I was aware of) opened early. And that was still around 11am for lunch. And they didn't have any entertainment during the day. As I recall, nothing started until around 6-6:30pm. There didn't seem to be any "main venue" like the Flora-Bama at the FBISF.
Speaking of FBISF, OD and I will definitely see you there in November! I'm volunteering again this year, but not sure how much I'll be doing. I will be going to the first volunteer meeting sometime in October, then the last meeting is the Tuesday night before the festival begins. So, I will be there from that Tuesday through the rest of the festival. I'm not sure I want to volunteer for the night shifts at the Flora-Bama this year, and I've already contacted Maggie about the lunch service, and she implied I would only be needed a couple of days. So, I'll probably have a lot more free time this year.
phil g.
Phil,
You are correct. There is nothing going on during the day. Which was a bit of my "feeling lost" stuff. All of those guys sleep very late. They go to the all night guitar pull and that doesn't end until around 5:30 or 6:30 and I just don't stay up that late any more. There used to be a lot of that at the Frank Brown festival. In the place where those condos directly to the right (looking at it from the street) there used to be total beach and one house. That is the house that is located across the street now, known as the "River House." It used to be the "Beach house." That was the place everyone showed up after all the shows ended around 1-2:00 AM. All the hit writers used to show up, Hank Cochran, Danny Dill, Dean Dillon, Sonny Throckmorton, and all the really big dogs would go there after their shows.
The guitar pulls, would have about thirty people in them, but most of the songs were AMAZING! I played in a bunch of those, and it is how I know Allen Rhody and a bunch of the hit writers.
They do that at most of the Festivals. Smokey Mountain has it at the Gatlinburg Inn, on the front porch. Those end around 3:00 am. The Miss. has a hotel, the Gulf Resort, where their's is. That is the central location of that Festival.
The biggest problem in all of them, is that it usually has about 40-50 people playing. So you get about one song every two hours. And the songs are LOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGGGGGG!!!!!
Mississippi really doesn't have anything going on during the day until Saturday. Then they have workshops all day and a "Youth" show at 2:30. This was the same time as the Alabama/Ole Miss game this year and I was not going to miss that. Was watching it with a bunch of the writers, half were Miss. people and half Alabama people. Was a lot of fun. A couple of the guys got into a bet that whenever their other team scored, they would have to buy a drink. Got pretty funny for a while, but then several of them had to go do a show. The final score was 48-43, Alabama. They would have been REALLY DRUNK by then!
Phil, we'll see you down at the beach. I'll be telling everyone the late night party is at OD and Phils! That should keep people going on down at your place until 5:00- or 6:00 am. Should be a lot of fun for you.
MAB, that's pretty funny you would suggest sending everyone to Philboy and my Condo for a late night party. I recall my first trip to Frank Brown back in '09' and I stayed up with the girls (Janie, Becky, and Denise) until 4:30 in the morning. Janie didn't have to make the tour the next day but Becky and Denise did. The Old Dog chose to sleep in and I got chastized for it. If fact when I showed up 2 hours late, my punishment was to walk the Dixie Dog down on the beach.
No problem with that because I got what I deserved. However; if Philboy and I are going to host a late night party, may I suggest those old songwriters bring their girlfriends to keep it interesting. I could care less about their old hit songs, I could easily fall asleep listening to them. However; if they bring their girlfriends, I'll stay up all night making sure their drinks are full and they are having a good time. Just sayin....
OD
O.K. MAB! Sounds like it's settled! PARTY AT OD AND PHILBOY'S AFTER THE SHOWS!! SPREAD THE WORD!!
I guess I had forgotten about the youth show on Saturday. Since I don't watch college football, I was able to take in the show last year. Were about 12-14 kids, only about 2 of which were guys, which I thought was interesting. And out of all those kids, there may have been 1 or 2 that almost impressed me. I'm not sure if they wanted to be entertainers or just writers, but most of them had a loooonnnnng way to go.
Speaking of kids, or anyone, wanting to "break into the music business"; I'm not sure how it works these days, but my gut tells me, that if that is your goal, you really should be trying to be an entertainer. I think you also need to be writing a lot of your own material. IF you only want to be a writer, I think you should start out right away hitching your proverbial wagon to an entertainer wannbe. In other words, start EARLY investing in RELATIONSHIPS. I really don't know how the top writers I've met got started, "back in the day". Or even today. How DO they, and/or their songs, "get heard" by the big dog publishers and labels anyway? I'm pretty sure that at a minimum, they had/have to GET OUT OF THE LIVING ROOM. Just my thoughts. Oh, and of course, THEIR SONGS HAVE TO REALLY STAND OUT!
phil g.
Phi,
The thing you have to understand is that in this day and age, EVERYONE THINKS THEY ARE BOTH WRITERS AND ARTISTS!!! They are all entitled. This is what has formed over the past 15-20 years. Anyone can write their own song. Record it on their camera phone. Put it no Facebook. Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, I tunes, YOU TUBE, and start getting comments on it. It is the "Facebook" element of our culture. "Here is what I had for breakfast...here is my comments on the political scene, here is MY TOES IN THE SAND, here is what I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT EVERYTHING...." Everyone thinks EVERYONE HAS TO LISTEN TO THEM.
But in reality we have had the "bad cassette dub" syndrome. With each successive generation, there is less learning of the craft, less abilities. There is less and less that actually do bubble up. It just becomes mostly every thing sounding like everything else. You know the complaints. "I hate everything on the radio cause it sounds alike." It does. And it is the same in EVERY SINGLE FORMAT. Rock, RAP (ALL EXACTLY THE SAME ON PURPOSE), folk, blues, world, roots, Americana, you name the format, it is all the same. Just like in the old days when someone made a copy of a cassette, then made a copy from THAT cassette, then a dub from THAT cassette, etc. It gets less interesting with each successive generation. And the public doesn't care because they have endless supply. But they are not passionate about any of it, because it is all just another thing that we have. Same with television, movies, radio, video games, internet sites, sports teams, you name it. Endless supply and endless demand. And almost inperceptible 8 second attention spans. Something sucks? Go to the next thing that sucks and on and on and on.
Supply and demand.
This effect has been getting worse and worse expotentially each year since the Internet exploded. Now it is totally out of control. There is no real interest in quality because most people out there now or coming up have no CONNECTION to quality. It is not in their realm of understanding. There are plenty of us "old farts" that talk about it and feel we are going to get through to some people, and every once in a while a stand out. But mostly now it is who can have the most convincing product brand of the second and then be gone.
How to get your songs heard and how artists and writers have made it happens the same way now it has always happened. A person develops skills and their own approach. They learn from the people who came before them. They apply that and get out of their living room. They build consensus in their home areas. Then they have to move to a higher league. Many will move to the larger regions in their areas. Many will attempt the reality television show/contest route. A few will gravitate to the major centers, where most of them will be eaten up and move home or somewhere else, or completely quit within a relatively short time.
The really really special people, will find their way under the wing of someone ahead of them. They will get into writer's circles. They will be invited into special rounds, benefits. They will write with more and more people, record more and more songs, be invited into more and more events. Some will get some form of deal and if they can hang on the two or three years in development hell, they might get to see the light of day. Probably less than .0001% of people who start out doing this will get anywhere close to this.
But how are they heard? All word of mouth and refferall. Someone else has to be in their corner. In the current world, that is every good looking male or female, that get their shot. Hit and established writers, other artists, will have hundreds and thousands of people they are trying to bring along and promote. If you pay attention at the Frank Brown festival, you will see dozens of them. They will be under the arm of the hit writers. They will be on their shows, getting up and doing a couple of songs. They will be playing the open mics. They will be hanging around the hospitality rooms. Like everything else, most will wash out. That is just the facts.
Now people can get overnight success. But it lasts about that long. Over night. It is gone faster than it comes. Today's Viral sensation is tomorrow's trivia question about "what ever happened to?...."
There will be very few careers in the future that last past a couple of years. And during that time, they will expend more energy and money than they will ever make out.
Supply and demand. Can't get away from reality.
MAB
MAB,
If I may make a comment about younger songwriters and artist's trying to break into the music industry.
It reminds me so much of myself back when I began learning the carpentry trade so many years ago. I had graduated high school and given up on college due to an event you know about, got a job at a factory, later got drafted into the Army, and returned back to the factory job before going on to college for a couple of years. Sadly I had developed a desire to party and that changed everything. I quit school and got a job with a very well known builder in my area to learn a trade. This is the comparison I'd like to make.
At the time, I was so young and dumb I didn't have any idea about the challenges that were facing me. I had no idea how dumb I was and the skills I would have to learn. I recall very well thinking a couple years later; after being in the trade for awhile; just how dumb I was and if I had known how much I had to learn I may not have bothered in the first place.
Now in my case learning the carpentry trade was not a "Dream" of mine but it was interesting to learn the skills (at first) and barely paid my bills at the time. Back in 1970 when I got my first factory job the average pay for a low level assembly line worker was $3.25 and hour. Five years later I would begin an apprenticeship in carpentry for $3.00 an hour. S.O.B. Not any wages that is going to get anyone rich or allow them to buy a nice home or drive a new car. Thankfully my wages improved as I rose through the ranks and got better paying jobs; but that is not my comparison quite yet.
It goes back to my statement of being "Young and Dumb" which allows me to understand how a young singer/songwriter can have a dream to become an artist; without realizing the challenges that lay ahead of them. No doubt 99% of them will realize it the hard way and give up; which only leaves room for the 1% that don't know any different and will find some room in the music business even if they only play clubs and never reach any major success.
You get frustrated with some of them when they don't have a clue or even bother to take your advise and listen how they could increase their odds should they insist on going on trying to follow their dreams. I get frustrated with some of them because it's obvious even to me they are only average and don't have a chance in hell. I wish I could grab them, shake them up a litte bit, and convince them to get a real job and build a future in another field of work. However; most of them will not listen if it's not something they want to hear. Also more and more generations will come along and have the same dream they will have to learn how to deal with for themselves. I wish it were easy for everyone to realize their dreams; but all of us know that will never be the case.
As much as I admire your talents and the talents of many others, I'm so happy I sucked at it and had to get a real job that now allows me a retirement income and a chance to be lazy. Not the best ending to every story but the end to my story. God Bless those trying to make it, I wish them all the best.
OD
OD,
A nice story. Unfortunately, you would have to add another dimension to your analogy. Imagine if EVERYONE wanted to be in construction. You lived in a neighborhood with 20 or 30 homes, housing maybe 300 people. And there were 10,000 carpenters, many of them LIVING in those houses themselves. Not only was there no money in it ,but you would almost have to PAY to work on those houses, if you could get any work. Since most of those home owners were carpenters, electricians, brick layers, plumbers, etc. themselves. And there were NO BUILDING CODES. So it really didn't matter what kind of home was put up, what kind of building materials, or any safety regulations.
A lot of those homes would fall down, catch fire or completely never get finished. And if someone else came along, they simply tear down what was built and put up their own ramshackle area. Kind of a homeless camp of boxes, crates, and bad areas. And EVERY area was like that. The next town over, the next town after that, the next city after that. Wherever you went were simply more people doing the same thing. Nobody really making anything, just putting up their own version of a living space.
With music, it is simply people MAKING THINGS UP. Now they do various things. They make people feel emotion, some good, some bad. And most are only a momentary blip on a radar screen before they are replaced with something else.
I have recently been seeing Apple's new commercials for their streaming service. They are out to blow away Pandora, Spotify, and all the others. They are STARTING OUT WITH FORTY MILLION SONGS. And they are offering that service for about $4.00 a month. So people will have access to MORE songs and be able to pay LESS for them. And the reason they can do that is that there is an ENDLESS SUPPLY.
It is the cumulative effect. When everyone is IN THE GAME, it takes all the money OUT OF THE GAME. So it goes back to the thing I have said from day one. Don't get caught up in the industry. The Industry will be what it will be and most people are not going to be involved in that. Do it for you, and what you enjoy doing. Yes, there will be a few people that break through. they always do. And in my opinion, you should always swing for the fences and make whatever you do be as good as it can be.
By the way OD, I am NEVER frustrated. I just report things the way they are. I'm not a pessimist or optimist. I am a realist. Just gotta look at all this for what it is. In my world, there will always be someone coming along wanting to learn about this. Just like Golf. It will always be driven by passion and many people will always have that passion.
Just got to try to keep your passions from making you broke.
A nice story. Unfortunately, you would have to add another dimension to your analogy. Imagine if EVERYONE wanted to be in construction. You lived in a neighborhood with 20 or 30 homes, housing maybe 300 people. And there were 10,000 carpenters, many of them LIVING in those houses themselves. Not only was there no money in it ,but you would almost have to PAY to work on those houses, if you could get any work. Since most of those home owners were carpenters, electricians, brick layers, plumbers, etc. themselves. And there were NO BUILDING CODES. So it really didn't matter what kind of home was put up, what kind of building materials, or any safety regulations.
A lot of those homes would fall down, catch fire or completely never get finished. And if someone else came along, they simply tear down what was built and put up their own ramshackle area. Kind of a homeless camp of boxes, crates, and bad areas. And EVERY area was like that. The next town over, the next town after that, the next city after that. Wherever you went were simply more people doing the same thing. Nobody really making anything, just putting up their own version of a living space.
With music, it is simply people MAKING THINGS UP. Now they do various things. They make people feel emotion, some good, some bad. And most are only a momentary blip on a radar screen before they are replaced with something else.
I have recently been seeing Apple's new commercials for their streaming service. They are out to blow away Pandora, Spotify, and all the others. They are STARTING OUT WITH FORTY MILLION SONGS. And they are offering that service for about $4.00 a month. So people will have access to MORE songs and be able to pay LESS for them. And the reason they can do that is that there is an ENDLESS SUPPLY.
It is the cumulative effect. When everyone is IN THE GAME, it takes all the money OUT OF THE GAME. So it goes back to the thing I have said from day one. Don't get caught up in the industry. The Industry will be what it will be and most people are not going to be involved in that. Do it for you, and what you enjoy doing. Yes, there will be a few people that break through. they always do. And in my opinion, you should always swing for the fences and make whatever you do be as good as it can be.
By the way OD, I am NEVER frustrated. I just report things the way they are. I'm not a pessimist or optimist. I am a realist. Just gotta look at all this for what it is. In my world, there will always be someone coming along wanting to learn about this. Just like Golf. It will always be driven by passion and many people will always have that passion.
Just got to try to keep your passions from making you broke.
Song "Writer" or Song "Maker"
There is a difference. I had never heard the term "songmaker" before. This term comes from Wil Nance, one of the more successful writers in Nashville. There will be 2 links at the end of this post for you, on to the song, "She's Everything", Written by Wil, and turned into a #1 hit by Brad Paisley. One link is to Brad Paisley's version (which is a little different than the way
Wil originally wrote it), and the other link is an interview Wil did with Songfacts, in which he introduces the term, "songmaker".
A little back story. I live in Ocala, FL. First, there aren't many songwriters around me, and second, there are no songwriter groups, except in Gainesville, about an hour north. Not really that far, and I do try to make all their meetings. Second, any writer I have met so far, does not co-write. Well, except the NSAI group I go to in Gainesville is trying to get us started co-writing. So, I pretty much do what I have always done; Write alone.
Now, let me back up again, and tell you, I was in Nashville a year or so ago, and went to a writers night where Wil was performing. After the show, I went up and re-introduced myself. He actually knows me from the Frank Brown Festival, he just doesn't "KNOW" me. I asked him if he had a CD for sale that was mostly him and his guitar, and not fully produced. He said, "not really", but did have a CD where he sang all the songs. So I bought the CD. Turns out, it was a songwriter's CD. By that I mean, every song on it also has the story behind the song. "She's Everything" is on that CD along with the story. And the story is, he went to a publisher, and every song he brought, the publisher asked if he had written the song by himself. Every answer was, "No. I wrote it with....". Finally, the publisher said he needed Wil to write a song by himself. About 2 weeks later, Wil finally finished, "She's Everything", which was a song about his wife. That publisher never got back to Wil, but some years later (I think), through a lot of RELATIONSHIPS, the song somehow got to Brad Paisley. But, Brad wanted to change some of the lyrics to be more about his wife. So, that is the song that went to #1.
Now, the reason for that story about Wil's song, was the fact he had to write it alone, and how difficult that was for him. Which brings me to a song I'm finishing up, and how many times I've re-written it. In Wil's song, he uses descriptions of inanimate object to describe his wife. Lines like, "She's a Saturn with a sunroof and her brown hair a blowing", and, "She's a red pair of tennis shoes, She's a holy pair of jeans". I'm doing the same kind of thing in the chorus of my song. I decided to try to find a Youtube of Wil playing that song. But, all I could find was the Brad Paisley version, for which there will be a link at the end. In searching for Wil's version, I found the link to Wil's Songfacts interview. The interview is about writing that song, and in that interview, the Songfacts 7th question is, "How much of that song is real life for you" That is where he introduces the term, "songmaker". He continues to use that term, contrasting it with "songwriter", for the rest of the interview.
Here is Brad Paisley's version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCjXaEbrLdw
So, are you a "songwriter" or a "songmaker". After reading Wil's interview, I've decided I am the lesser, "songmaker". Read the interview and see which you are.
Enjoy the interview. http://www.songfacts.com/blog/interviews/wil_nance_she_s_everything_/
phil g.
Hey Phil,
Thanks for posting that. Will is a friend of mine and I remember sitting on the porch at the Gatlinburg Inn two years ago having that conversation about Songmakers and Songwriters. It's very true. Sometimes you are writing for cuts or just to get things happening career wise. That is the "Songmaking" part. The "Songwriter" part is more of the craft side. They both sort of interplay a lot. I feel those personal relationships and experiences are what facilitate both sides.
A funny and interesting thing about that interview. He talks about writing his song "Clean Up on Aisle Five" with Mo Pitney, who is an artist everyone has been fired up about for about three years. Very good "old style" country singer in the vein of Keith Whitley. Originally Will took that song to Ashe Underwood. Ashe is a very good songwriter I have known for decades. That makes two really killer songs he missed out on. Here's one of the others:
Ashe had gone through one of his endless relationships and the break up. He has always had problems keeping women, although far from his fault. One of them died, and he has had his own troubles. He is a good guy, just not really blessed when it comes to women. At one point he had a message on his voice mail, that ended with "and if this is 'Carol' (I think that was the name" I still love you." It was pretty interesting and I remember hearing that message a couple times.
Another mutual friend of ours, David Kent, called him one day and heard that message too. They were getting together to write and he said "That would be a pretty good idea for a song." Ashe said Nah. (Just like he did in the interview).
And they wrote something else. But the day AFTER, David got together with a new girl he was working with, Kirstie Manna, and they wrote that song, called "AUSTIN." ("If this is Austin, I still Love You.") It turned out great and they got it cut on a new artist coming through named Blake Shelton. That was his first number one. He's done okay.
Another mutual friend of ours, David Kent, called him one day and heard that message too. They were getting together to write and he said "That would be a pretty good idea for a song." Ashe said Nah. (Just like he did in the interview).
And they wrote something else. But the day AFTER, David got together with a new girl he was working with, Kirstie Manna, and they wrote that song, called "AUSTIN." ("If this is Austin, I still Love You.") It turned out great and they got it cut on a new artist coming through named Blake Shelton. That was his first number one. He's done okay.
And that's really the thing about "writing what you know." And where the "songmaker" and "Songwriter" converge. It is about shared experiences, and finding an avenue or pathway that most people overlooked. We all should have our "Songwriter antenne" up all the time and be looking for things to write about. When you can mix them with personal experiences, or (other people's personal experiences) that is when the Songmaker and Songcrafter stuff meets.
MAB
WRITING SOLO
Phil, I do understand your delima about writing alone. In isolated areas it is often hard to find someone to link up with. But it really is hard to understand why you have been able to find "nobody" in that area. Have you ever tried something like Facebook, or some other social media source? Are their magazines or web sites like The Nashville Scene in that area that feature local resturants, bars, music listings?
I thought I had met someone and tried to hook you up with them once. Did that ever come together?
I thought I had met someone and tried to hook you up with them once. Did that ever come together?
But the "solo" writing is something we all have to do at one time or another. To me it is just always supremely boring. I look at songwriting as a jigsaw puzzle and a challenge. I is doubled when you find someone else's experiences to share with your own. Makes the songs more realistic and to me, makes them better.
Talking about visiting publishers and them saying to "write solo" is something that I have not heard of for many years. Now the question is more "who are you writing with?" because they are looking for someone who has the chance of getting a record deal, which is everything in the business. They tend to look more for artist/writers than artists.
But you should write solo or whatever you have to do to keep active and rolling along. Whatever works.
But you should write solo or whatever you have to do to keep active and rolling along. Whatever works.
Glad to see you posting.
I do hope you find someone to help you along.
Well MAB, I think the last guy you hooked me up with lived in Tallassee. About 2 1/2 hrs away. Still, compared to Justin in Texas, not totally bad. I did go meet him on a trip to Apalachicola, but it turned out he wrote blues only. I never did ask him about co-writing.
However, on that trip I did get a song idea while at the Bowery Station bar in Apalachicola. Which brings up a story about getting song ideas, and trying to co-write. I went over there to see Alan Rhody. I got there early, and the owner was already playing some songs. There was this woman, probably in her mid to late 60's, that was out on the dance floor every song. By herself, with the house broom. She continued dancing by herself with that broom, even after Alan got there and started his show. The whole time I'm sitting there I'm thinking, "there is a song here".
Now, to digress, the song idea had no relevance to any of my own life experiences, so I was stuck tryin to figure out what kind of life story to come up with. Kind of like the song you and Megan wrote, "Final Address". Well, I don't remember you ever telling me the song was based on any of your or Megan's experiences? So, it was going to be more of a "songMAKER" kind of song rather than a "songwriter" song. But I still wanted the story to sound like a real life experience.
So now I have the title, "Old Straw Broom", and a story about an older woman dealing with the loss of her lifelong partner. I really didn't want to write it by myself, so I held onto the idea until I went to my next NSAI meeting, a few weeks later. I told the group (only about 4 of us at that meeting) about the experience, and that I had an idea for a song title, "Old Straw Broom". I did not explain the story line idea. I wanted a reaction first. The very first response from one of the members was a huge laugh and a comment something about writing a song about a witch on a broom. What?? When I tried to explain the story was about a woman who lost a partner, no one seemed interested and just kept talking about a witch on a broom. So much for co-writing.
The rest of the story is, I wrote the song I wanted to write. Took me about a month, and even after it was "finished" I went back and changed one line I didn't like from, "Holding on to her youth", to, "For a while she's back in her youth". Anyway, I played the song at our next NSAI meeting, and everyone was floored. And, since then, when I do play it out, it gets a good response. I don't play it out much though because it is one of those "sad" kind of ballads. Not really "sad" but not up-tempo fun like I try to play when I'm out. Most of the open mic's are at bars, and I don't think they're really interested in those kind of songs.
Oh yes, and I did make another trip over to Apalachicola to play that song for the woman who inspired it. She didn't show up until about half way through the second verse, but the loud crowd there did quiet down, and I did get a good response. And, unlike Megan's story, I never did get to talk to the lady and thank her for giving me an idea.
phil g.
Phillip (phil g.) Grigg said...
Well MAB, I think the last guy you hooked me up with lived in Tallassee. About 2 1/2 hrs away. Still, compared to Justin in Texas, not totally bad. I did go meet him on a trip to Apalachicola, but it turned out he wrote blues only. I never did ask him about co-writing.
phil g.
Phil, I can relate.
Seems to me there are folk who want to cowrite as long as it is their stuff and you are only there to supply company , coffee, and the odd line .
Or they simply want an audience and are not really into cowriting.
I have stopped trying to find local writers. I had more success in Utah,Pittsburgh, NC, Widnes UK, NYC and Paris than locally.
although Ill admit I have stopped going to Open mics and writers night almost do not exist. NSAI in Melbourne died 2years ago for similar lack of interest. The core group wasnt big enough to sustain the meetings .Not enough new blood and, from NSAI I had only one tenuous cowriting contact and she was more into gut wrenching , self immolation, psycho-woe is me stuff. and one performing writer that I simply could not find the page he was on. Maybe the problem is me :)
john
Hey guys, just got back from a "Music Starts Here" event. There are a LOT of people trying to do this, sorry you are having such a tough time finding them. I've been in so many towns, cities, small and large, and there has just always been populations of writers that are out there. Just have to find them. And I do understand about not having open mics or writers nights. I don't know what to tell you. Just something you either rise above or don't.
John Most writers worldwide are solo writers. They are only into themselves. When you say "maybe it's me". you could have a point. Maybe you are not writing what they are interested in. Can't force anyone to do anything. It's all a part of what we all have to go through... or don't. If you have to write solo, you have to write solo. Or online, or how else you do it. You have to find a way. But it is very very hard. Make no mistake.
Phil, the song "Final Address" is actually based on stories of four couples I have known. So it is actually real life personal relationships. I have an Uncle, My Mother's Brother In Law. He was married to my aunt, (my Mother's sister) for 55 years. Then she passed away. His parents were married for 60 years and his Father passed away. The behavior in that song, visiting the departed's grave site, sitting with it, talking to it, keeping pictures and remembering them, are all what I saw both of those people go through. Two other couples that I knew also were married in the 50 year range. So it was common experiences they all shared.
As I said, sometimes you can collect other people's experiences and build them into one character. The same is done in the movies, like biographies, where they will take several characters, and compile it into one person, or "telescope time" where events that happened over a period of time are boiled down to a much tighter time frame then actually happened. When approaching a story, you take elements that work, elements of the truth, and find the twist or the pathway on it.
All songwritng is "making shit up." You just have to find a way.
MAB
Marc-Alan Barnette said...
John Most writers worldwide are solo writers. They are only into themselves. When you say "maybe it's me". you could have a point. Maybe you are not writing what they are interested in.
MAB
Apart from one person , they didnt seem to have any idea what they want from co writing.. Did they want to literally cowrite, or work on a partial lyric, work on an idea, provide lyric only provide melody only . NONE seemed to have any ferkin idea how they wanted to work and to the best of my knowledge that is as far as they went.
The one person had so many personal issue at the time, trying to get them to make a writing appointment proved to be all but impossible and got so wrapped in technicalities of "The theory of Songwriting" it was almost impossible to move forward and get it down on paper.
Maybe it is me..
My MO is..
one needs to get it ALL relative ideas down on paper, work out what it is really about , edit to suit then a series of checks to make sure it makes sense, is repeatable, has its own rythym ,then add sound and /or percussion and see if it still makes sense, is memorable and repeatable . Then maybe , just maybe there is something there that could fly as a song (and would probably still needs work)
Not bitching just saying so I decided I would do my own thing my own way
John,
A lot of people who come here have that same thing. They are so focused on themselves, they don't want to co-write, they are just insulated from any one else. They usually don't last very long or adapt. so what you are talking about is worldwide, not just in Australia.
Did I give you information on my co-writer Andrew Cavanah? He is in Cairne, and is quite active over there. Send me a PM and I'll give you his info. It has been repeated from a lot of people from Australia when they come here. It is why I try to get people to write with Christine Parri here although she is now doing more traveling than writing. Don't even see her very much.
Maybe you can have more luck online. That does work for some people. it's just too bad there is not more support among writers. Does make it all difficult for everyone.
In your methods, they sound find for the most part. A lot of people don't like to map things out and some times you have to adjust to that. But again, if you are not getting people contributing, that might be a moot point.
Oh well, good to hear from you guys in any case.
MAB
Marc-Alan Barnette said...
John,
A lot of people who come here have that same thing. They are so focused on themselves, they don't want to co-write, they are just insulated from any one else. They usually don't last very long or adapt. so what you are talking about is worldwide, not just in Australia.
Did I give you information on my co-writer Andrew Cavanah? He is in Cairne, and is quite active over there. Send me a PM and I'll give you his info. It has been repeated from a lot of people from Australia when they come here. It is why I try to get people to write with Christine Parri here although she is now doing more traveling than writing. Don't even see her very much.
Maybe you can have more luck online. That does work for some people. it's just too bad there is not more support among writers. Does make it all difficult for everyone.
In your methods, they sound find for the most part. A lot of people don't like to map things out and some times you have to adjust to that. But again, if you are not getting people contributing, that might be a moot point.
Oh well, good to hear from you guys in any case.
MAB
On line has worked best for me so I am going to stick with that and catch up with folk as and when I trip around the globe. I haven't "spoken " to Christine in a while . Time for me to send a feeler out again. Il try contacting Andrew when I get his details from you.
John
I'll be glad to pass them along. It is one of the most mind numbing things I have seen, so many people so absorbed in themselves, constant cell phones, constantly being oblivious to everyone around them ,and ALL thinking that they are amazing and they don't need anyone else when it comes to writing or anything. And those people are ALWAYS THE ONES WHO NEED OTHER PEOPLE THE MOST!!! They are so consumed with getting their weak songs out there they never stop to consider if they have anything WORTH being out there. Never seen so many people blow so many things just piling mediocrity on mediocrity.
Hope some of them can get with you some times John. We can always hope.
MAB
Marc-Alan Barnette said...
I'll be glad to pass them along. It is one of the most mind numbing things I have seen, so many people so absorbed in themselves, constant cell phones, constantly being oblivious to everyone around them ,and ALL thinking that they are amazing and they don't need anyone else when it comes to writing or anything. And those people are ALWAYS THE ONES WHO NEED OTHER PEOPLE THE MOST!!! They are so consumed with getting their weak songs out there they never stop to consider if they have anything WORTH being out there. Never seen so many people blow so many things just piling mediocrity on mediocrity.
Hope some of them can get with you some times John. We can always hope.
MAB
Having spent years in sales, i am used to folk who dont interact, dont reply, want to be spoon fed etc etc. I have put out a lot of feelers but if , after 3 or 4 times there is no feedback, its a case of "NEXT" or I do my own thing.
I dont mind "No thanks or no at this time," . That is normal and good manners but I do mind the "yes" and nothing happens from their end and it becomes a one way street or ..............there is a deafening silence.
Ok Back to the drawing board
john