Marc-Alan Barnette
#4450
John,

There was a "MUSIC STARTS HERE" networking event on Tuesday. One of the speakers, writer/artist Georgia Middleton, who has had MAJOR RECORD AND PUBLISHING DEALS, talked about writing with artists a lot in Nashville. She talked about the phenomenon of writing not just one, but multiple songs with artists, having them in the room, doing pretty much everything for them, and then at the end of the session they go "Great! Who do you think we could get to CUT THIS?" Not only do they not realize THEY are the artist, they want someone ELSE to do it for them.

It is something that is world wide and we all have to deal with. Finding co-writers, artists, just like minded people, is hard enough. Finding people on the same page and having follow through is even harder. 

I have similar stories, writing with artists, showing them things they would take decades to learn, and they seem to ignore it all. They don't do the songs, keep writing the same stuff they have been writing with predictable results. The only saving grace that I try to remember is that most people who do this are GONE within TWO YEARS. Everyone gets very excited at first, then they are gone.

The only other thing I might suggest is what Matt Casey did. Have you ever thought about starting a Facebook group for writers/artists in your area? In Matt's case in Boston there were a lot of artists and writers, but no country, and most had no interest in co-writing. He put together this Facebook group "New England to Nashville" and suddenly had writers and artists (mostly artists) popping up all over the place. He started putting shows together and then the group got bigger and bigger. Now he has a couple hundred members, does charity shows, workshops, has his own publishing group and his own management/booking agency.

I'm not saying that would happen around you, but you might find a few people not too far from you that you did not know existed. I really don't know outside of that. 

The people I know who have done this well, Bev and Cliff Nelson, Matt, Janice Starodub in Manitoba, etc. all sort of had the same experiences. There didn't seem to be anything going on around them and they didn't think there was any one in their area. So they just started something themselves. Always was small at first, but then grew. 

Your's may not be that way, I don't know. I hope you can find some people, find SKYPE, or whatever. I saw your note on Andrew, and I get that you both are more lyricists. There are more lyric writers than anything in songwriting, and most music people don't really look that much for lyrics, as they tend to write their own. I hope you can find someone or a few someone's. Sometimes you just have to keep trying.

Good luck.
MAB
Like
Marc-Alan Barnette
#4451
                                                              Writing with SHAUN MURPHY

Had kind of a cool thing happen to me yesterday, might as well share it here. One of the fortunate thing about myself and my life here is being able to write with some heroes. Over the years one  of my favorite bands is LITTLE FEAT. They were formed in the 70's with Lowell George in LA and became a pretty big cult band over the years. They have some medium level hits but have a very loyal following. I was even in a Little Feat tribute band called BIG SHOES for a time. After the leader of Feat, Lowell George died  in 1979, the band reformed with existing and new members. One of those members was a blazing R&B and blues singer, Shaun Murphy. She was incredible and had great success with the Feat was on their records and live, as well as her own band and another singer, BOB SEEGER. She is on most of his records, and you have probably heard her vocals.

She lives in Nashville and I met her a few years ago and we have crossed paths from time to time. I had heard her but she just knew OF me. We had some mutual friends, and finally ran into each other at the MUSIC STARTS HERE event Tuesday. She called the next day and we got together yesterday.

The thing about writing with legend artists is that you have to prove yourself even more than usual. When they have been around the biggest writers and artists in the business, that is a pretty big pair of shoes to fill. (pun intended.)
But we were able to do it. I approach everything the same way. Get a conversation going, find a groove to start with, and start writing. I write from the first line down and she threw out a couple things that kicked it into gear. I usually don't say very much and write things down, not touching the guitar until I have a verse/chorus in my mind. I constantly look for subject matter that they have not done. I try to avoid male/female relationships for the most part because everyone has millions of those.

The result, "Get out of my Own Way" is something we both go through and I think is prevalent with a lot of people. Sometimes we create our own roadblocks and need to get out of our own way to make them come together. The song really worked and hopefully Shaun might do it on her upcoming project. At any rate it gives me another side of a subject I deal with constantly. Thought I'd show you the lyrics.

   OUT OF MY OWN WAY

MAB/SHAUN MURPHY

10-6-2016





These dreams don’t have a face

These plans don’t have a time

Long as I’m moving forward

Not looking back behind

Always a good day, rolling down this highway,

Long as I stay, out of my own way



I’ve been known to wallow,

I’ve been known to crawl

I’ve had pride to swallow

But survived it all

Learned the hard way, put it in my resume

And I’ll be okay, long as I stay out of my own way



Chorus/bridge

I’ve been beat up, I’ve been kicked down

But I don’t stay there for long

There’s not a problem, I can’t overcome

And come back twice as strong



Have a little faith

Take on the unknown

When it stares you in the face

You know where you belong

At the end of the day, come what may

Know your place and stay out of your own way 

So that was it. Was a lot of fun and got something we both can apply to our lives. Was a good experience. Thanks Shaun.

MAB
Like
1 liked
 likes this.
Phillip (phil g.) Grigg
#4452

Oh Yea!! Love it. Anxious to hear it in November. After listening to some of Shaun's music on youtube, I hear a kind of punk, soul, blues kind of rhythm and simple melody. Really curios how you guys did it. But, regardless if it matches the rhythm and melody in my head, I'm sure I'll love it.


phil g.

Like
John Westwood
#4453
Marc-Alan Barnette said...

John,

There was a "MUSIC STARTS HERE" networking event on Tuesday. One of the speakers, writer/artist Georgia Middleton, who has had MAJOR RECORD AND PUBLISHING DEALS, talked about writing with artists a lot in Nashville. She talked about the phenomenon of writing not just one, but multiple songs with artists, having them in the room, doing pretty much everything for them, and then at the end of the session they go "Great! Who do you think we could get to CUT THIS?" Not only do they not realize THEY are the artist, they want someone ELSE to do it for them.

It is something that is world wide and we all have to deal with. Finding co-writers, artists, just like minded people, is hard enough. Finding people on the same page and having follow through is even harder. 

I have similar stories, writing with artists, showing them things they would take decades to learn, and they seem to ignore it all. They don't do the songs, keep writing the same stuff they have been writing with predictable results. The only saving grace that I try to remember is that most people who do this are GONE within TWO YEARS. Everyone gets very excited at first, then they are gone.

The only other thing I might suggest is what Matt Casey did. Have you ever thought about starting a Facebook group for writers/artists in your area? In Matt's case in Boston there were a lot of artists and writers, but no country, and most had no interest in co-writing. He put together this Facebook group "New England to Nashville" and suddenly had writers and artists (mostly artists) popping up all over the place. He started putting shows together and then the group got bigger and bigger. Now he has a couple hundred members, does charity shows, workshops, has his own publishing group and his own management/booking agency.

I'm not saying that would happen around you, but you might find a few people not too far from you that you did not know existed. I really don't know outside of that. 

The people I know who have done this well, Bev and Cliff Nelson, Matt, Janice Starodub in Manitoba, etc. all sort of had the same experiences. There didn't seem to be anything going on around them and they didn't think there was any one in their area. So they just started something themselves. Always was small at first, but then grew. 

Your's may not be that way, I don't know. I hope you can find some people, find SKYPE, or whatever. I saw your note on Andrew, and I get that you both are more lyricists. There are more lyric writers than anything in songwriting, and most music people don't really look that much for lyrics, as they tend to write their own. I hope you can find someone or a few someone's. Sometimes you just have to keep trying.

Good luck.
MAB


 I did  go see and listen  to local artists perform, made face to face contact  and asked if  they would like to  be part of an informal  songwriting group  where they  could   join in as a writer and/ or a mentor  or cowriter . All  but two  said  no , one  was Mr unreliable, and the other   moved interstate.

I  am kinda over  this  kinda  scenario and will simply  do my own thing as and when  I feel like it with the folk I know  that are willing  even  if they are all overseas.


Like
John Westwood
#4454
Phillip (phil g.) Grigg said...

Oh Yea!! Love it. Anxious to hear it in November. After listening to some of Shaun's music on youtube, I hear a kind of punk, soul, blues kind of rhythm and simple melody. Really curios how you guys did it. But, regardless if it matches the rhythm and melody in my head, I'm sure I'll love it.


phil g.



S'funny. I knda  hear it as uptempo rock/pop country sound. . Harder guitars , no TWANG, no Nasal vocals.
Like
Phillip (phil g.) Grigg
#4455

John, go watch some of Shaun's performances on you tube. She is a soul/blues singer. I had watched about 4 of her videos before MAB posted the lyrics, so that is why I hear that kind of song.


phil g.

Like
John Westwood
#4456
Phillip (phil g.) Grigg said...

John, go watch some of Shaun's performances on you tube. She is a soul/blues singer. I had watched about 4 of her videos before MAB posted the lyrics, so that is why I hear that kind of song.


phil g.





Just checked out  her webpage. I hear what  you are saying. 'S funny how reading a lyric  can suggest  diff'rent strokes  to diff'rent folks.  :)
john
Like
Marc-Alan Barnette
#4457
Hey folks,

Well, we'll all have to wait on this one for a while. Shaun is in the process of working with a producer and independent label, and is writing/reviewing a lot of songs before she decides on anything. She doesn't want me playing it out or for anyone. I probably shouldn't have posted the lyrics. and was actually only using it as a demonstration on how to make lyrics reflect something going on in your life. Shaun, like myself, get in our own way a lot. So that was just a way to make it a "teachable moment" when approaching songwriting.

This is the situation I continually find myself in. When you write with other people, particularly artists, it is really up to them as to when you can put something "out there." It is one of the reasons I forget about so many songs. I write them, try to bring my "A" game and do the best I can. then turn them over to them in hopes it works out well for all concerned. Some times it is years before they pop up again. 

It is the doubled edged sword. How do you get something "out there" until you have gotten it "out there." But there is a thing called "control" and when you work with other people you have to respect that control for them.

Just another aspect of working with a lot of people. They each have their own quirks and desires.

MAB
Like
1 liked
 likes this.
Phillip (phil g.) Grigg
#4458

So, invite Shaun down to Frank Brown, and she can sit in on one of our shows and we can hear it! (Just joking)


phil

Like
1 liked
 likes this.
Marc-Alan Barnette
#4459
That's a good one Phil. Doubt she'd be up for that. But hopefully one day she'll record it then we can all hear it.
Like
1 liked
 likes this.
Norman Harris
#4460

Hi Folks


Long time no been here!  Thought as I had a moment I would say hello.  I hope you are all well.


One thing you said MAB, a couple of posts up was that you like to get a verse / chorus going before touching the guitar.  I can relate to that.  The problem I seem to have at the moment (apart from life and work getting in the way), is me time to sit down, write a few lines, read a book, stare into space    I just find it difficult to be in a position to sit and write songs at the moment.  Just not in the mood maybe (lost my muse, or whatever they say!).


A definite part of it is being away fro here and out-of-touch.  I have started to though  I even bought an app to write and store song ideas ;-)  Will I use it though?  I keep updating Sonar, etc, in the hope I start recording stuff.  LOL!  Sounds pathetic.  Good thing is I have a couple of evenings when I alone and free to warble away so I hope to start writing and recording stuff soon.


Funny I looked back when I was probably at my busiest and I was the most prolific in writing and collaborating.  Probably because we had been invested in and getting proper pay, regularly, for the first time!! 


One of the reasons I am really busy just now is a lecturer has left and I am covering his stuff as well as other stuff (never mind design projects).  But he was part of a university band (guitar, banjo, singer).  Play all kinds of songs plus traditional.  They need another guitarist so I should give myself a kick up the butt and do it.


Can't promise anything but I will try to be here.  Talking of Little Feat, I meet a couple of old school friends and we stay over at one of the houses.  A night of playing old albums, from Steely Dan to Frank Zappa.  We were discussing Little Feat and listened to some a couple of weeks ago.  Don't remember much as we are now in the habit of introducing a spirit after a few beers.  The Bourbon was 46% so it was a cloudy night (prefer a good malt!) - fun though. 


Just in case you find it interesting, the artist I have started to collect CDs of is Paul Millns.  I saw him years ago and forgot about him.  I think he is an excellent songwriter (and pianist).  You should check him out!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHLlToELknA


Hope to write again soon.


Cheers


Nod

Like
1 liked
 likes this.
Marc-Alan Barnette
#4461
Hey Norman,

Very nice to see and hear what you have going on. To me, one of the "MAIN REASONS" to co-write, is that it keeps you motivated, gives you a time limit, and FORCES you to pay attention to what you are doing at that time. Songwriters, poets, actors, authors, etc. are some of the most undisciplined people that exist. WE all suffer from ADD or ADHD, which I believe has something to do with the ability to create. Our minds can freely associate and we can put DREAMS into paper or voice. Most non-creative people can't do that and think in a much more linear way. They are very good about sticking to schedules and finishing tasks, but can be very dry and conventional because that is what that calls for.

With most co-writing (at least what I have been successful at) there is a certain time to sit down and work on something. There are two-three hours that are put into it focused on that and nothing else. There is a sense of PURPOSE that FORCES you to be disciplined on that subject. 

Most of the people I have encountered who are vastly successful writers are great co-writers because that is what instills the discipline they need to be productive. A friend of mine, Bob Regan, hit writer and former president of the Nashville Songwriters Association, once talked about this in a workshop. He said, " I decided I wasn't writing enough on my own and wanted to see if I could still do it. I dedicated an entire month to writing only by myself. Once I started, I realized there were a thousand things that would come up and take my attention away. I would have to answer a phone call, check my emails and stock quotes, had to run errands, etc." After about two weeks, he gave up the solo writing for good.

Most solo writers I have worked with (and the majority of those that come to Nashville the first few times are solo writers) seem to write the same song over and over. If they have gone through a break up, every song is about that break up. If they have gotten married, or have a child recently, all the songs are about that. And a majority are just pale imitations of what they hear on the radio. Same chords, same progressions, same subject matter, same inflections. They are just parroting what they hear from others.

With me, the co-writers are the people that bring in the different personalities and life situations that make for the song.

Last week with Shaun Murphy, it was about her life and "getting in her own way." I realized that I did the exact same thing and the song came from all of that. Two days ago I had four people from upstate New York. Three of them are guys I've worked with before. One was one of those guy's daughters, who had written a long time ago but not sense.

One of the songs are about two of the guy's Father in laws. The two guys are married to sisters, so they had the same father in law and it was the daughter's grandfather. The details we used in the song were from his life. He actually loved old country music and went to this VFW bar all the time and used the jukebox as a time machine. So that became the song, about the details of his life.

Another works multiple jobs, and seems to be overwhelmed. he just wanted to be able to get back to LIFE instead of working so hard, and the details for that came out of HIS LIFE. That was the second song.

The third one,we didn't get so far on, only a verse and a chorus because it was a very difficult subject to figure out how to take. Something a younger person might (and I mean MIGHT) get away with, but no one past the age of 35 could do. Ended up finishing that one yesterday, but still don't really know if it is viable. 

The point is that with all these people, the way that they get their writing done is by coming to Nashville and working with me. That is what gives them the focus and the time away from their normal lives, and demands on their time. At that little bit of time, they have to get songs written and help develop ideas that they will work on in the future. I also helped them outline some ways they can get more efficient at home together. 

So to me, the co-writing is what enables us to do all that. It gives a time frame and FORCES us to have to get into and complete something. In my experience, it is very difficult to do alone. If you can find some people to work with that might be able to force you into a certain time configuration, even if it is long distance, skype, or whatever, it might help you with your ongoing delima. I have never seen a computer program that can do that. It can make it easier to put things down but I just haven't seen them create anything on their own.

Good to hear from you.

MAB
Like
1 liked
 likes this.
Norman Harris
#4462
Hi MAB

I need to get off my backside and collaborate on songs. My fear is that I get side-tracked and let some people down. I am hoping to get a few subject ideas down and start collaborating.  This time I will concentrate on getting the words down. Sometimes I like to get on the guitar too soon and produce some music recordings. I suppose depending on how things develop, working on both at the same time works. Other times doing the lyrics first can stop you creating a melody you may miss later.

The famous English singer / songwriter, Ralph McTell writes the music first. His guitar work is very much the melody. It has allowed him to write one of the most famous songs "Streets of London".  Maybe as the guitar is very much his instrument and plays a lot of Blind Blake, etc.


I agree with your description of creative people.  I am never well organised but I need to get music back in my life.  Not just good enough to dream you are doing it ;-)

Nod


Like
John Westwood
#4463
Hi Nod/Norman,
Good to see you  back

john
Like
Norman Harris
#4464
John Westwood said...

Hi Nod/Norman,
Good to see you  back

john



Thanks John

Intending to stay around!

Happy with Nod, nickname, or Norman ;-)
Like
OD OldDog
#4465

Cousin Nod,  may I offer my opinion for what it is worth.  You seem to come back from time to time and continue to beat yourself up because you don't always have time to devote to your music.  Well, so what???   You are doing what we all call "making a living" and I'm guessing you are not making a living at music so why beat yourself up if making a living keeps you from your music that you may never make any money at???   Cousin Nod, you are very talented and your true talents allow you to make a living even if your talents may be in another field other than music.  Be proud that you can support yourself and your family and don't sweat the small stuff (as they say).


 


Keep your music as a hobby like you have been doing and enjoy it when you can, nothing wrong with that..  Even though this is a songwriting site and you hear from Pro's like MAB, he would be the first to tell you to make a living first and enjoy your music when you can.


 


MAB's Forum is not only for those seeking to make a profession out of music; but also for those of us that just enjoy it and want to get better at it.  Even if our efforts may never make us professionals, we can learn to do better and become better musicians and songwriters than we could have ever been on our own, thanks to sites like this and a pro like MAB willing to work with us and share his knowledge. So quit beating yourself up because you don't always have the time to devote to music like you wish you did.


 


By the way, I'm happy to hear you have found a little more steady employment.  Any chance you can loan your cousin OD a little money???  They have shut off my credit at my local Drive-Thru where I used to get my beer supply.  They don't even believe me any longer when I tell them  I have a cousin named Nod that is about to design the next big thing and make himself rich, then he will send me money to pay my bar bill. 


 


Maybe if I explain to the owner you got a teaching job at a university, while you wait for your royalty check  to come in, he may extend my credit a little longer.  Also; I think him having to deal in Euro's makes him nervous, maybe if I tell him you will be sending me cash in American dollars may settle him down a little.


 


Now when do you think the cash will arrive from you.  I used that old line "the check is in the mail" a few times and he no-longer believes me.  I think if I inform him you intend to send cash in American dollars he may open my credit line again allowing me to put my beer on credit  and keep him happy for awhile until you can send me some money.  I sure thank-you cousin Nod. 


 


OD


(of course I'm only teasing you)  Just enjoy your musical journey when you can and don't worry about it if you don't have time because you have to make a living.


 


 


 


  


 


 


 


   

Like
1 liked
 likes this.
Justin Parker
#4466
*creeeeeek* (The kid opens the class door and discretely sits in the back of the room so as not to be noticed... Makes eye contact with the Old Dawg and his size 12 boots catch MABs chord to his laptop tearing it from the desk and onto the floor with a loud crash. The kid is now back in the room)

Hello Everybody!!! 

Great co-write brother mab!

Just wanted to check in fill you in on whats going on with kid, but MAINLY to bow my head and admit something, I doubted MAB on secretly in the back of my mind on my last tour and to say these words...  "Errrr aghhh ummm.... *STRAINS* "The MAB really, really, IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!!!!"

Now i rarely doubt the MAB, almost never to be more accurate. But on my last tour he told me flat out "Justin, get ready to start seeing venues close, even in Texas, they just aren't making the money." 

In the back of my mind I was saying "No, way! Never happen!" Well last month I attended our monthly NSAI Meeting at a huge beautiful venue we are blessed to have, and I spoke w/ the sound guy, as well as all the coordinators and the venue is not renewing it's lease, that was the word THEN, i went last week and they said it's still "up in the air" but FOR SURE NSAI is no longer going to be held there. Why??? Money. That establishment (while they still bring in big acts) just wasn't pulling it's weight. And our little NSAI group ordering iced teas, a drink or two with, with only few ordering meals, was just a handout for them.

Not to mention they have a HUGE, even larger venue about a 10 min. drive up the road...It's called Dosey Doe "The Big Barn" that is there money maker they are keeping... with bigger NATIONAL acts you pay about $130 for a ticket, dinner, desert, and a show. The sell out all the time. It seems the owner may have been just overstretching soooo close to home. The also have a small coffee shop nearby. 

So as of last weekend NSAI Houston (Second only to Nashville in membership) is without a home, why? The venue is closing it's doors. We've got a temporary home that alot of folks from the westside of town go to, but I could not get off work, drive home, and shower, and make it out there by 7pm. Even leaving work at 4:45pm. Houston's too big. People were talking about starting somewhere else, etc. We hope to find a home soon, I just put out a facebook post and hopefully get some feedback with that, right now, I'm not going to be going to any NSAI meetings until further notice. Really big bummer cause thats my AA for songwriting it surges me up for the month. For now its no more. The venue may renew it's lease i've heard but NSAI is no longer going to be there, of course the are in it to make money so our one night a week could be used for a large Texas/out of state act to fill in our night so than can make all the money they can, if not I suspect somebody will try to buy it, and turn it into a new name... i mean it's beautiful, and turn key, I've heard they may buy the whole strip center, but as for now CLOSED. Why MONEY... and dang it...

THE MAB WAS RIGHT (I for sure thought I had him on that one) just goes to show the kid never doubt YODA!!!!! 

In other news, ummmm,

I put in an application for Code Compliance officer w/in my City, it'd be a big move up, nearly double my annual salary, get me out of the hole, and position me for further moving up the chain. The quit taking apps today, so i'll get in interview soon and have a very good chance of getting it. I'll be hated by the townsfolk LOL but my kids don't go to school there, LOL and I live outside of town. A little more stress sure, but as my cousin who works there as a gas foreman said, "If you're happy with your little 3% raise each year fine. If you wanna make money put in for it, ALL jobs have stress, but you know what I leave mine in the floorboard of my truck at the end of the day and pick it up in the morning. Stress from money follows you EVERYWHERE effects your family, attitude, everything. Which stress would you prefer?" Sage advice. Worst case scenario, i don't get it, but still have a job. Yall say a prayer for me.

I've been studying like a MADMAN these past two weeks and have also passed all the Texas requried computer tests for my CLASS A Truck Driving CDL, I currently have the permit, but my last step is to take the actual driving test, i'll be setting that up next week but it takes some wait time. I'm getting every endorsement except hazmat. So i can drive the biggest trucks on the road, doubles, and triple trailer endorsements. Out of 47 guys at the city i'll be only the 3rd in my dept. to get it, they pay for it, and I need it on my crew, and it looks good on a resume. So why not?

When that's done, my next why not? is getting my bachelors in Construction Mgmt. again city pays for, i've already got thirty something hours towards my associates in business, so i'm going for online classes, family needs the money.

I've been selling 55 gallon drums metal/plastic and am making a killing right now... It keeps me busy, everybody's got a side hustle at the city and mine is honestly going GREAT!!! Don't wanna get too detailed on that.

Finally, a restaurant opened about a half mile from my house i mentioned to OD a while back. Tuesday I will be playing my FIRST OPEN MIC IN TEXAS. I may only do one song since they place itself doesn't have a set format and it will likely be many TABLES and Chairs but I'm well prepared on my guitar, and vocals best i can do, and lyrics remembered. The one thing NSAI at that venue did was really give you a chance to break those week knees, learn to take your time, hang the chord on the mic, etc. work out all your bad habits. I'm hoping it goes well.

I've literally had about a month and a half of an absence of creativity, it was VERY disheartening, stress of life, etc. got to me, I still played, still read... (the art of war 3 times) LOL and lots of weddings and family stuff. But my creative slump really had me worried, then I went back to basics and said "don't force it" i just embraced daily life, and ideas hit me left and write, i got three or four good concepts and hooks in the last couple weeks i'm camping on, i need a cowriter around here and want to get with a couple new guys. I need a second brain on these ideas, but overall i'm just glad the slump has passed. 

I'm gonna go practice my song now and still try to tighten it up. Yall say a prayer for the kid! 

Signed,

Always Lurking...

(OD, btw I saw Tootsies was having/had a big anniversary celebration I heard you were the guest of honor but they filled your time slot since you showed up not only late, but you were banging down the door of Legends Gift Shop and had a bad fracture in your hand due to it being rolled up in someones window??? Whats with that ya ole SOB!!! hahahahaha) Later guys
Like
1 liked
 likes this.
Norman Harris
#4467
OD OldDog said...

Cousin Nod,  may I offer my opinion for what it is worth.  You seem to come back from time to time and continue to beat yourself up because you don't always have time to devote to your music.  Well, so what???   You are doing what we all call "making a living" and I'm guessing you are not making a living at music so why beat yourself up if making a living keeps you from your music that you may never make any money at???   Cousin Nod, you are very talented and your true talents allow you to make a living even if your talents may be in another field other than music.  Be proud that you can support yourself and your family and don't sweat the small stuff (as they say).


 


Keep your music as a hobby like you have been doing and enjoy it when you can, nothing wrong with that..  Even though this is a songwriting site and you hear from Pro's like MAB, he would be the first to tell you to make a living first and enjoy your music when you can.


 


MAB's Forum is not only for those seeking to make a profession out of music; but also for those of us that just enjoy it and want to get better at it.  Even if our efforts may never make us professionals, we can learn to do better and become better musicians and songwriters than we could have ever been on our own, thanks to sites like this and a pro like MAB willing to work with us and share his knowledge. So quit beating yourself up because you don't always have the time to devote to music like you wish you did.


 


By the way, I'm happy to hear you have found a little more steady employment.  Any chance you can loan your cousin OD a little money???  They have shut off my credit at my local Drive-Thru where I used to get my beer supply.  They don't even believe me any longer when I tell them  I have a cousin named Nod that is about to design the next big thing and make himself rich, then he will send me money to pay my bar bill. 


 


Maybe if I explain to the owner you got a teaching job at a university, while you wait for your royalty check  to come in, he may extend my credit a little longer.  Also; I think him having to deal in Euro's makes him nervous, maybe if I tell him you will be sending me cash in American dollars may settle him down a little.


 


Now when do you think the cash will arrive from you.  I used that old line "the check is in the mail" a few times and he no-longer believes me.  I think if I inform him you intend to send cash in American dollars he may open my credit line again allowing me to put my beer on credit  and keep him happy for awhile until you can send me some money.  I sure thank-you cousin Nod. 


 


OD


(of course I'm only teasing you)  Just enjoy your musical journey when you can and don't worry about it if you don't have time because you have to make a living.


 


 


 


 


 


 


   



LOL!!! Cousin OD


How I miss the good ol' banter!


What you're saying is absolutely right.  But even although I want to do it as a hobby, it is frustrating I can't get the time.  Having said that, I did get a chance on Sunday to pick up the guitar and some nice chords together - and a couple of rough verses.  I may try and see if I can take it further with someone(s).  Sadly the business I co-founded was meant to be my pension and I would send you over 5 years supply of "Punk IPA".  My favourite tipple.



https://www.brewdog.com/beer/headliners/punk-ipa


Still, there is a product I developed with an electronics guy we haven't pushed.  We are hoping a friend may be looking to distribute over your way as he's based in Canada.  Not even going to have the slightest hope something comes of it - I have learnt that at least.  Still designing some interesting things like a speech therapy device for kids and adults and an anti-ageing device many women friends, colleagues, even my hairdresser, have volunteered for ;-)  If it works I'll get one shipped over to you so you're womanising ... I mean ... being a friendly father figure ... not - can carry on!!


I think I will get the chance to do more over Autumn / winter so you will see some things from me I am sure. 


Will keep up, I promise.


Cheers


Nod

Like
Marc-Alan Barnette
#4468
Hello folks, good to see you back Justin. Nod, remember the "banter" depends on YOU. We can always have discussions here and am always glad to talk about this stuff, but if other people are not going to contribute, there is no reason for me to be here. So as long as some of you participate, I will too.

Justin, I don't really say "I told you so..." because it is pretty self evident. What you are seeing in the music industry all around, is just a shape of things to come on everything in our country and frankly worldwide. In economic changes and downturns, entertainment is always the first thing hit. And because so many people have "spare time", seemingly losing jobs, getting downsized, or technology simply erasing their jobs, many go to Entertainment as a way to "get into the game." They can do so much online, anyone can do that. But of course, with so many people doing it, the way to monetize it at all slowly dies out. 

That is why I think even more downsizing is to come. Those major acts are getting squeezed as well. And as economic issues continue on, you have been seeing this again, for a long time. The people that USED to be able to charge those "$130" prices, will start to decline as well. In the rest of the world, it happened a long time ago. Artists that used to be able to command high ticket prices and guarantees have been shut down more and more. They have downsized in the people in their bands, in their crews, their transportation, etc. 

Yes, yes, I know, "Texas WON'T have that happen", and I have to tell you, now, yes, unfortunately, it will. In my opinion, the economy is about to get MUCH MUCH WORSE globally, as well as an increase in terrorism. That is going to cause a downshift in everything. 

But there is not a lot we can do about all that. And I don't want to derail the conversation from music. 

On the NSAI chapter, what has happened mostly Nationwide, is that they have gotten away from doing meetings in venues, and find houses and smaller locations to do the meetings. Actually, having visited the majority of chapters around the US, and a few in Canada, most do that. The regular meetings are in someone's home, usually the coordinators, and special events, workshops, seminars, open mics, etc. are held in a venue somewhere. So don't overlook that option. And if different people take turns, it might be workable at moving it around and sharing the burden.

One of the things NSAI has to be concerned with is LIABILITY. They try to have things AWAY from places that serve alcohol, because if someone gets drunk, wrecks, etc. they can be sued. So having meetings in a home DECREASE the liability issues. 

Another nod to the trial lawyers.

On your open mic performance. Try to keep it simple, keep your songs straightforward, DON'T TALK TOO MUCH. A big problem people have, especially when they are new at this, is going on and on about who they are, their songs. who they know, etc. Just know your songs. have them well rehearsed, tape your performances and rehearsals, and go straight to it. KISS (Keep It Simple Songwriter.)

MAB
Like
1 liked
 likes this.
Marc-Alan Barnette
#4469
FRANK BROWN SONGWRITERS FESTIVAL

For 25 years now, I have been fortunate to participate in the 32 year old FRANK BROWN INTERNATIONAL SONGWRITERS FESTIVAL in Perdido Key Fla, Orange Beach and Gulf Shores Alabama. It is truly the most inspiring and educational ten days of songwriting and personalities I have been involved in. Next week, starting on Nov. 3rd, about 200 of Nashville writers will be making the pilgrimage to the Gulf Coast for the festivities.
Most of my shows will be with the immortal Jimbeau Hinson. There will be one solo show with some other writers. Here they are:

Some of you hear have talked about coming down and so I thought I'd post my schedule:

Friday, Nov. 4th, Main Room FLORABAMA LOUNGE 8:00-9:30
Saturday, Nov. 5th NEW MALIBU LOUNGE                 7:00-8:30
Tuesday, Nov, 8th NOLANS FINE DINING                   7:15-8:30
Thursday Nov. 10th FLORABAMA MAIN ROOM          7:15-8:15  (This will be with Randy Brooks and Bill Whyte)
Friday Nov. 11 The Hot Spot Music and Grub              6:00-7:30
Saturday Nov. 12  PERDIDO BEACH RESORT            6:00-7:30

Hope to see you there.

MAB
Like
Pamela Elaine
#4470
Wow MAB, do you stay busy or what?  how do you do it? :)  I hope to get out more often and see ya perform this fall. (in, Nashville, that is) Always enjoy your music.  PamelaElaine
Like
1 liked
 likes this.
Marc-Alan Barnette
#4471
News from Frank Brown. Been down here five days since last Thursday. Played two shows and several open mics. Had a lot of friends down here, it is really old home week. Kev Mo, OD and Phil are in great form as they navigate the beach areas. Lots of fun. Lots of music. Lots of special moments. I hope they will pop on and describe it. 

Still the coolest songwriter experience in the country.

MAB
Like
1 liked
 likes this.
Phillip (phil g.) Grigg
#4472

Well, in the words of MAB, "Another trip has ended, Most writers have all left". I had a great time! In spite of being continuously tired and finally coming down with something the last 2 days here. No MAB, I am not going to "describe it". I figure if others following this site don't want to come down here and experience a great event, they'll just have to wander. And plan on coming next year. Every year, beginning the first Thursday of November, for 10 days of some amazing music from all over the U.S.A. Sorry you all missed it. Maybe next year.


phil g.

Like
Norman Harris
#4473
Phillip (phil g.) Grigg said...

Well, in the words of MAB, "Another trip has ended, Most writers have all left". I had a great time! In spite of being continuously tired and finally coming down with something the last 2 days here. No MAB, I am not going to "describe it". I figure if others following this site don't want to come down here and experience a great event, they'll just have to wander. And plan on coming next year. Every year, beginning the first Thursday of November, for 10 days of some amazing music from all over the U.S.A. Sorry you all missed it. Maybe next year.


phil g.




One day I will get over ... one day, I promise!  Sounds like great fun.


Cheers


Nod

Like
Kevin Emmrich
#4474
Just went to my first Frank Brown Songwriters Festival and Oh My! What an experience. I got to hear lots of number one writers and up and coming artists and also a lot of folks like me -- write OK songs, perform well enough, but just haven’t taken the time or effort to write at the professional bar/level.

Major takeaways for me (I'll try and add some more later today if I remember anything else):

1.)  MAB is a dang force of nature. Although we all know he is great, seeing him in a setting where there are many #1 writers you definitely can tell his performing level is very, very, very high. He was the most energetic and best performer I saw all week.

2.)  Hey, I actually have written a song with a #1 writer – Lance Carpenter. During a group tour back with MAB I was placed with Lance and Bob Paterno and we wrote a funny song. OK, they mostly wrote it and I got the coffee (ha, ha). I did get a couple of lines in there, I think I should go back and re-learn it.

3.)  My favorite show (besides MAB’s) was the show with Lance Carpenter and Erin Enderlin. We thought Erin was some nobody and boy were we wrong. Erin co-wrote Last Call (recorded by Lee Ann Womack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oCdAvyAsAo ) and she played a couple of other tunes recorded by big stars, including Monday Morning Church ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xo89BgFOxA ) recorded by Alan Jackson! Lance did mighty fine too.

4.)   A lot of writers there still did very forgettable tunes. Went too long or sort of went nowhere. OD gets on me because I don’t spend the extra time on my lyrics and “dig deeper”. If you are using a cliché and it means what everyone thinks it means you aren’t digging deep enough. The good writers use clichés but they have a twist on the phrase or come at it from an angle you didn’t expect. For example if you use “between a rock and a hard place” in a song and it just means you are in a tough situation, then you have written a weak song, you’ve settled and not gone far enough. How many songs have you seen with a cliché in the title and it means exactly what the phrase is supposed to mean? – it is a turn off.

5.)  To be an interesting performer you have to do at least one of three things a) have a great song with great lyrics/story b) sing great and/or c) play some super interesting guitar parts. One of those three is enough, but if you have all three you are a pro! I am going to work on my guitar playing this year (ha, ha).

6.)  I played a couple of “songwriter showcases” (sort of an open mic with just originals) and I did as well as I could have expected to. Next year I'll try and up my game a bit!

7.)  Many, many shows all around – too many to see them all, but I caught enough to be inspired and amazed at times.

8.)  Did I learn anything new? Not really, MAB has taught us well, but it sure is nice to have the lessons MAB has taught reinforced out in the real world.

9.)  OK, maybe the high point was getting to hang out with Phil G and OD all week!  It sure is nice meeting people that you have conversed with on-line.   They are mighty fine folk!
Like
1 liked
 likes this.