So along this same line of questioning, who pays you for the physical sales, like CD's. the publisher or the artist??? Or?? lol Assuming you have any "pay" coming. lol
Peggy
Like
I joined BMI because it was free. ASCAP cost $50. I needed to join something because I needed some kind of CAE # for someone who was submitting a recording of mine (co-write) to their music library.
That seemed like a good as differentiating reason as any.
I guess I should join a PRO? Since I do have a co-write that has been recorded and is (or at least was) being played out?
That is a good question Peggy. My (uninformed) vote is your PRO.
phil g.
Peggy Burnham said...
"So along this same line of questioning, who pays you for the physical sales, like CD's. the publisher or the artist??? Or?? lol Assuming you have any "pay" coming. lol"
Peggy
Peggy, THIS IS EXACTLY what it gets so GREY AREA.Technically, it is YOUR responsibility to make sure YOU get paid. Your publisher is supposed to do that, but if you are self published it is up to you. Then you have artists who have so much going on they often are not going to pay out or even record something that is going to cost them more money in the first place.
Justin is correct in getting some licencing fees up front when people are going to record your songs. But artists, who for the most part are self funded, are rarely going to take on another expense. If they were to record a CD with other songs, pay the nearly $100 for lisencing fees, and they are doing 10-12 songs, they are not going to record those songs at all and instead record something they write themselves. The licencing fees were among the first we saw going nearly 20 years ago. Everything has shifted to "SPEC" (meaning "SPECULATION", or in more common speech, "SPEC NOT TO GET PAID") and there were no fees collected at all.
You have to hope that you have a RELATIONSHIP with the artist, publisher, producer, label, so that they will be straight up with you and pay you what you are owed. But it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to be on top of all of that.
Licencing is predicated on physical copies pressed. Supposedly per 1000 copies. Anything less is considered PROMOTIONAL and you are not paid for promotional copies. People no longer print up 1000 copies. Most people's CDs will sell less than 200 copies. You might get some people that are well meaning and do want to pay out, and that is what Justin has gotten, as well as things I have gotten. But most people, while well intentioned, have limited bank accounts. That is why there is so many KICKSTARTER or GO FUND ME campaigns.
If you were to look at the costs of doing a CD:
Per song studio costs at $500-$1500 per song. ten songs, that is up to Ten to twelve thousand dollars recording cost, and usually MUCH, MUCH, MORE. So lets just budget that at FIFTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS.
Packaging, photos, reproductions: $2500-$5000.
A promotional video: $5000
Advertising $5000
You are easily looking at $25,000-$30,000 to BEGIN WITH to even get off the ground. You think they are going to toss in ANOTHER $1000-$2500 in licencing fees? You are living in a different Universe.
For independent projects on smaller labels, double that. $50,000.
For major artists releases, quintiple that, at around $2.5 MILLION dollars.
Considering that SINGLES that cross into the TOP 25 songs on any charts, are the only ones that pay any significant money at all, you are probably not looking at anything that will pay out. So most CD's single legal downloads, or that wonderful word STREAMS, pay almost nothing, which is why everyone are getting these checks for .22 tenths of a thousandth of a cent. You can see why almost NO ONE MAKES A DIME.
So who is going to PAY YOU?
Boy that is a good question. Better head on over to BMI and ASCAP, camp out in their parking lot and wait till they see you to get an answer.
I am TELLING YOU NOW, AND TELLING EVERYONE THIS. If you are in this business to make money, you are probably in the WRONG BUSINESS. There is not any. and there are a LOT OF COSTS involved. There are ways to do it that don't make you end up bankrupt, but usually people find out about those AFTER they have nearly GONE BANKRUPT. And are still paying for their mistakes.
You might ought to take some of Justin's advice and enjoy the fact that someone is interested in recording your song, writing with you, performing it out, beyond what you can do. Because that is probably going to be about all you are going to get.
Now, on the OTHER SIDE of the pyramid, the publishers, producers, labels, etc. MAKE THE MONEY BECAUSE THEY PUT UP THE INVESTMENT MONEY IN THE FIRST PLACE. If you are to get a MAJOR CUT, which are the ONLY ONE'S THAT GENERATE INCOME, there are going to be other entities involved.
If you want to get your song to a MAJOR ARTIST, you are going to HAVE TO HAVE A MAJOR PUBLISHER INVOLVED because they are the only one's with ACCESS to that artist.
If you want to have a MAJOR ARTIST record the song, you better either be writing it WITH the major artist, or be involved in the teams around that artist.
This is a deadly serious BUSINESS. And when you step into that arena, you have a LOT MORE TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT THAN COPYRIGHTS, REGISTRATION, PRO'S and that sort of stuff. You have to be aware that there are ENORMOUS COSTS involved with all of this.
You need to understand all of that before you get into it.
MAB
Yes Phil, you should join a PRO so you can start figuring out how much you should be paying out to your self. And you can also go around to everyplace that the song has been played (both of them) and start adding up how much that is owed. I would say, that a couple million more plays and you can start collecting two or three hundred thousandths of a cent. Of course, you also have to SHARE THAT, so make sure you get a check to RiDawn and myself.
Make sure you have copywritten that, and have flied all the registrations on it. Probably will only cost you six or seven thousand more dollars in order to make twenty two cents over a decade collected.
Go ahead and join a PRO. Also make sure the places it was performed PAY ASCAP and BMI fees, and collect on music. Another ten or twelve thousand bucks to an accountant to make sure everything is legal. So go ahead and put in twenty thousand dollars and you can get less than a dollar in performance royalties. Check back in with us about the numbers on that will ya? We'll be waiting to hear about it. Oh yeah, since RiDawn has not done the song since last year, it may take a while to add all that up, so you might be able to collect all that within five or six years.
Good luck,
MAB
I agree with Justin too. From my perspective, if someone wants to do one of my songs, I could really care less about the money aspect of it at this point. After 12 years of writing, I've made all of zero dollars. So if I was depending on that to eat, I'd really be in bad shape. My friend, Kevin, contacted me last night and said that he wants to pick up "Give Me A Moment" and cut it in a couple of weeks when he goes back in the studio to record. He asked me what percentage I expect. I told him I could care less about that. Just having my name attached to it is really the only thing that matters to me.
I also thought it was funny when he was talking about the scope of Texas in size. It's amazing that you can cross New England in less time than you can drive from Texarkana to El Paso. Interstate 20 is generally considered the dividing line between East and West Texas and in itself, those are two different worlds.When I was traveling, I personally thought from a people aspect that rural Tennessee reminded me more of home than anywhere else I went.
MAB, when I read a story about a person that is standing in the office of BMI or visiting the tourist traps in Nashville, I always get a mental image of myself. I remember when I was working in New York, a guy told me that the "pick pockets" and "scam artists" always can tell a tourist by the way they stand and stare upwards at the skyscrapers. Another time, when I was in Boston, we had to take our smoke breaks outside. There would always be several people standing out there. It was during the winter storm of 2000 and while we were standing outside, this guy ran up behind a suit with a briefcase. He snagged it and took off in a jog with the suit and another guy jogging after him while they talked with police on their cells. I made the remark that if I was going to steal something, I would be running a lot faster than the guy who had robbed the briefcase. The guy next to me remarked that he stole it so he could get arrested. That way he would have 3 hots and a cot instead of being out in the weather. Definitely not something one would ever see where I came from. And I think that is a perfect example of where I am in music. Everything is something that makes you go "hmmm?" I like the humorous way you approach things though. It makes for more interesting reading and tends to stick with me better than just lines and lines of initials I have to research to know what they mean.
Going back to what my friend Kevin asked me, Word for word, it was..."If it's not under contract I would love to release it. I could have it ready and mastered by the first week of March. Let me know what % you need." To which I told him whatever the norm is. And then he wrote "I was thinking 50/50. I could have them split up an iTunes account half of the proceeds would go to your account and half to mine? And then I will get them to send you a link so you can check out the summary. It would help you to learn to know about that stuff." Naturally, my reply was idiot proof or not, "Sure, whatever the norm is. Just let me know and I'll work with you anyway I can." Starting off where I am, is there anything I'm missing here that I need to know or ask from a CYA standpoint? Because to be honest, my whole thought process is "Ok, just record it and I'll be happy."
Also, thanks for the nice welcome folks. I appreciate it!
Wes,
See, one of the questions you ask is something I have no way of knowing. I don't know who "Kevin" is, what his involvement in the song is, where he is going to release it, etc. Is he a co-writer or just an artist? Is there anyone else involved?
The basic rule of thumb is you split everything down the middle. You have two halfs of a song, the publisher's share and the writers share. You always keep your writer's share. You ASSIGN the publisher's share. It is yours until you get someone to publish it for you, unless you are self published. Now this goes with your co-writers too. They have half the song, and half the publishing. If it is three writers, splits down the middle, third, third and third. All even splits unless otherwise specified.
For instance, if you had three writers, but got the song cut on a SONY, Warner, Universal, EMI, etc. artist. Then mostly likely all publishing will be assigned to the major company, or they will not cut the song.
Most songs without major companies involved don't do a lot. They are featured on YOU TUBE, I Tunes, or sites like SOUND CLOUD, REVERBNATION, etc. They might get a little radio airplay on some small stations, but the large ones that pay royalties cannot play anything outside of a major label cut, because the majors purchase commercial radio time to ensure their artists get that. And if a station is not large enough to charge hefty advertising rates, they are barely staying on to begin with. Most podcasting, Internet radio, private web channels, etc. pay nothing.
If a YOU TUBE video gets enormous amounts of VIEWS, say 100,000 or more, they would be contacted by advertisers who set up an advertising schedule. But that is changing. At first, when YOU TUBE was new, the number would be like 10,000 likes" that were required. Then 20,000, 50,000, now 100,000 and on and on. Probably will be a million likes soon to even register the song has been "viewed."
Radio stations are also rated on the signal strength and how many people they reach. So some station out in the boonies or a college station that reaches 500 people is not going to pay anything in the way of money.
The same with PERFORMANCES. If the artist performs it in a mainstream venue that reports the performances, they pay BMI and ASCAP licencing fees, you might make some money based upon continuous performances. A Kenny Chesney is going to be playing HUGE arenas, night after night, that are owned by Verizon and major companies. Those pay nicely. But if it is small clubs, karaoke nights, or coffee houses that pay little or nothing in fees, they are going to pay nothing. There is nothing to collect.
One of the things ASCAP, and BMI have been doing is suing small venues for licencing fees to pay songwriters. They are shutting down the venues who don't pay and therefore a lot of live music is going away. This is something that is coming to Texas like a freight train, because Texas does everything it's own way. It has had decades of roadhouses and venues that feature live music and usually doesn't factor back anywhere but Texas. But just like the Federal tax system and you have to pay taxes to support some kind of water project in Michigan or Alabama, Texas is about to get hit by a bunch of legal stuff that will be distributed in other areas.
When money declines in one section (paid product for artists, writers and labels) they work in other areas, to collect for the decline.Happens in all industries. It has been said that half of live venues in Texas will be closed in five years. I don't know how accurate that is, but I do know there are a lot of changes coming and Texas has been able to avoid it for now. That won't happen forever.
So the basic thing about recorded music to remember is HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE LISTENING OR VIEWING IT. If you get mainstream success, a lot of plays, views, downloads, etc. you will be paid okay. There are a lot of things you have to give up to GET to that place in the first place, like publishing and making deals with labels, such as a "THREE QUARTER RATE" which is taking around 7 cents verses 9.1 cents per copy sold. And that is only in mechanicals for PHYSICAL copies sold. Most people don't PAY FOR PHYSICAL COPIES. They download or get unlimited streaming. A streaming service that collects nine dollars and nine cents a month actually pay for TEN SONGS. The rest people are getting for free. So if someone is getting ONE THOUSAND SONGS A MONTH, they are paying for ten.
And there is "FILE SHARING" what about the person that sees your YOU TUBE video, bought the CD then sent the file of the song to ten of their friends, who sent it to one hundred of their friends, who sent it to a thousand of those friends? The first one is paid for. The rest are not. that is called FREE MUSIC. And is how around 85% of music is heard now. You gonna head over to everyone of those people and tell them they owe you 9.1 cents?
Great business huh?
And most music is GIVEN AWAY to get people to come in and see the band or artist, buy their t-shirts, and hats, and beer coozies. And the songwriter gets nothing of this. This is why record companies, thanks to AMERICAN IDOL, came up with the "360 DEGREE DEAL" where they are partners in all merchandise, touring, and branding. Those American Idol winners still give half their income to American Idol. If they lose money in one place, they make it up in another.
So what do you tell your friend? I have no idea. Are you having to pay for recording costs, for packaging, for promotion? Are you having to shell out cash for his band when the van breaks down on the Interstate 400 miles from home? Are you having to pony up to pay some money when they travel for a day and a half to find out the gig got cancelled because the venue closed? Are you having to be out there, driving 14 hours in a day, eating almost nothing, getting to the gig, playing for two hours, mostly cover music, to have beer bottles thrown at you through the chicken wire when you can't play "YELLOW ROSE OF TEXAS?"
I think you find something that makes it easy for him to keep going, and see where it all ends up. If you have a good relationship with him (wow, there is that word again!) and they start selling copies, AND then want MORE SONGS, maybe you have made a good deal. What if they end up with a record deal and move into the big leagues?
All in how you look at it.
MAB
Sorry Marc,
I should have been more clear about that. Kevin Conner is an artist with a small Texas label. Southwest Recording Artists I think is the name of the label. And basically I think it is what you mentioned by dong YouTube, Soundcloud etc. I don't really know how much they are invested in the various aspects of all that. I grew up with the guy and we've tinkered here and there with songs but one thing or the other always prevented us from getting together to finish them off. He stays pretty busy doing gigs and traveling around. So I don't see him very much or as much I'd like to. He lives about 100 miles from me and it's hard to keep up with him. I'm not paying for any recording costs or promotions. My involvement only goes to the point that he wants to do that song and perhaps one more.
MAB,
Where did you hear about half of Texas venues closing in five years? I know you said it may be hearsay I'm just curious if you were told that, read an article, or what...
Wes,
It's that Kevin guy a dj? Just curious, also, either way, I'd just let the guy cut my song for nothing on this one and hope for the best.. If it was me... Heck, Aaron Watson did it a couple months ago, now as of today there's a little fella from Texas named Granger Smith whom I saw just two years ago with only 250 people in the venue, who's got the number one song in country music as of today. I'd let him cut it... Cody Johnson Band is next, Josh Ward, Mike & The Moonpies, and about thirty more in the pen waiting on the gate to open... Billboard is starting to read like a who's who of Texas Country artists. The hat act is returning, mark my words on this date....
Where did you hear about half of Texas venues closing in five years? I know you said it may be hearsay I'm just curious if you were told that, read an article, or what...
Wes,
It's that Kevin guy a dj? Just curious, also, either way, I'd just let the guy cut my song for nothing on this one and hope for the best.. If it was me... Heck, Aaron Watson did it a couple months ago, now as of today there's a little fella from Texas named Granger Smith whom I saw just two years ago with only 250 people in the venue, who's got the number one song in country music as of today. I'd let him cut it... Cody Johnson Band is next, Josh Ward, Mike & The Moonpies, and about thirty more in the pen waiting on the gate to open... Billboard is starting to read like a who's who of Texas Country artists. The hat act is returning, mark my words on this date....
Justin,
I have heard it from a number of sources, four or five of them for the past couple of years. BMI, ASCAP, Billboard and a number of Internet industry publications I get. There have been Texas writers, label people, producers that live here in town, kind of "quiet conversation. I have also heard from writers and artists coming from Texas, either doing tours with me or general information here in town. One was one of Austin's top songwriters. All had experienced venues closing and ending live music. Some due to ASCAP and BMI shutting them down due to lawsuits. Some just due to changes in their clientele'. Your recent observations and questions on the closing of Texas charts had also said that. But as I have said to you on other issues, Texas has presented a bulls eye for much of the rest of political elements in the country. One of the reasons I mentioned stuff about gun videos. I would just not make myself a target for outside interests looking to shut down certain ways of life in this country. I wouldn't give them excuses.
There are also "feelings you get" about certain changes in all businesses. There are changes coming to Texas that they have avoided for many decades. It is what has happened to the rest of the industry. You have had for many decades very loyal fans that supported Texas. That is probably changing as new generations don't have the same loyalty as people you know. This is what happens in cultures. They change. And you start seeing little things change first. It is somewhat gradual, and then all of sudden it has changed and you don't know what happened. The reality is that it had been changing for years, you were just insulated from it. The same way types of music you like are always on the radio and then all of a sudden you don't hear them much and then they are gone. It is that huge "THAT AIN'T COUNTRY" debate that everyone has all the time. New songs, artists, waves come and bury those that came before.
It is what happens with music. It progresses and moves forward. The people who are stuck in the past get buried.
I don't have any time lines or anything else other than watching the culture. Change always happens. Sometimes it's good, sometimes not so good. But nothing stays the same. That is the one constant. Change.
MAB
Justin,
Kevin is an artist. He's kind of flirting around the skirts of it. But he has done two albums. He's from Quanah, Texas. I'm actually casual friends with Aaron. He's from Abilene and played a local festival we had along with Kevin Fowler, Zach Edwards (who is a very dear friend) and so forth. I'm also good friends with Carl Gabrielson from College Station (Bryan). I'm very aware of Granger. I like his music. I would say Kevin Fowler is probably the biggest if not one of the biggest influences on my writing style. Not to knock anybody else. On what you and MAB have been discussing regarding the Texas music scene, I'm kind of up in the air in some ways on both opinions. On one hand, I've been to so many festivals and shows from Texas artists and I've heard how they address the crowd and their thoughts on Nashville. Plus, I have tons of friends who are all pro Texas music and very anti Nashville. I've been criticized by some of them for the fact that I tend to write more for the idea of Nashville. Not to say that it will ever make it there. I just do. But Texas is a different breed of music. I don't know the ends and outs of the politics between Nashville and Texas music labels. I have no idea about any of that. And in some aspects, I do see where MAB is coming from. The Outlaw movement i.e. Jerry Jeff Walker, DAC, Willie, Waylon, etc.really made for a hot music scene in Texas in the 70's that kind of cooled down in the 80's and early 90's but then with Great Divide, Pat Green, Cross Canadian Ragweed, Kevin Fowler, and others, it came storming back and really brought in a whole new generation to the Texas music scene. Over the last decade give or take, that has tapered off. Granted, their are some great artists out there and I love their music. But for me, it feels like what I would call the "pause between". Something is right around the corner that is going to take Texas music fans by storm again. There is just too much of a following for it not to.
I know I'm nobody and my opinion doesn't matter much but if I were to give a good guess, I'd say that once "bro country" peters out in Nashville, you're going to see a lot more similar music start popping up in the Texas/Red Dirt scenes with it leaning towards a classic southern rock sound. Seems like at more of these festivals, the artists are putting on more of a display of fast music playing that showcases their playing talents. And I'm not saying I'm right, I just have a feeling that something is coming right around the corner. It may be the death of Texas music as we know it like MAB mentioned or it may be a new era that revives it. It's kind of hard to gauge. I know 90% of my friends would say it is on the verge of a cultural phenomenon. But I don't think I'd go that far. Not to get into a debate over it or anything. Just my 2 cents worth from a fans chair.
And with Kevin recording that song of mine, that's exactly what I told him. I'm just glad he's doing it and as long my name is in the credits, I could care less about all of the other stuff. I just want to make music. Plain and simple.
Great convo and info MAB and Wes!!!
I am just sooo torn on that comment MAB lol you've never lead me wrong, I (i mean Justin) just can't see the change around me? I see it growing... Not saying it won't come down the pike, just being in the middle of the whirlpool I can't see the swirling... If it changes, which I agree it's a constant and unavoidable, I hope that Alamo syndrome kicks in and we want to support each other... Just a naive hope. LOL
Wes
Yeah I know what you mean I never, never, never, down Nashville... I won't $&!# where my bread would be buttered... I know allot of these artists feel safe in their venues, here in Texas, isolated, and screaming (expletive) Nashville gets a roar from the crowd, but I always cringe a bit, thinking "i wonder who's listening" "is this being video taped and who in the future may see it?" Cause of all they scream when they get a fan base... Guess where I see them ALL go to try their luck next... * tires squealing* NASHVILLE, TN!!!!!!
I support Texas Country, I never down Nashville... There is a difference.
I am just sooo torn on that comment MAB lol you've never lead me wrong, I (i mean Justin) just can't see the change around me? I see it growing... Not saying it won't come down the pike, just being in the middle of the whirlpool I can't see the swirling... If it changes, which I agree it's a constant and unavoidable, I hope that Alamo syndrome kicks in and we want to support each other... Just a naive hope. LOL
Wes
Yeah I know what you mean I never, never, never, down Nashville... I won't $&!# where my bread would be buttered... I know allot of these artists feel safe in their venues, here in Texas, isolated, and screaming (expletive) Nashville gets a roar from the crowd, but I always cringe a bit, thinking "i wonder who's listening" "is this being video taped and who in the future may see it?" Cause of all they scream when they get a fan base... Guess where I see them ALL go to try their luck next... * tires squealing* NASHVILLE, TN!!!!!!
I support Texas Country, I never down Nashville... There is a difference.
Justin,
I don't think EVERYTHING in Texas is going to change. I just think it is going to be different than you have known it. Like everything in entertainment, changes happen. My main thought is that there is probably not going to be the money there once was, in performing live, particularly as you get more and more people doing it and less and less people paying for it. And the styles of music will change and adapt.
Music is a NICHE. All of it is. The Niche changes and adapts, things that we once could depend on leave, and are replaced by other things. It is a normal part of life. I wouldn't worry too much about it, just be aware of it.
MAB
It's interesting that the conversation would go into this direction because it also relates to other things I've noticed that you guys have touched on in recent posts. I read Justin's post about the "sit in" with some songwriters and MAB's "Jedi" reply. Of course, I'm not anywhere near that point yet. But MAB's remark about being in the company of certain writers can be it's piece of humble pie
The other evening, MAB and I were discussing my goals with radio play and so forth. I made the comment that I believe anything is possible and he replied back with that it is probable. For me though, getting radio play isn't an obstacle I have. The reason being, I've been a dj in clubs and as a part time gig for 25 years. I know a lot of station managers, radio talents and club dj's. Not in Wichita Falls but in San Angelo, Lubbock, Abilene and Midland-Odessa. Not to mention smaller venues.
Like Justin, I study the charts and have for years. I've been a paying member of Billboard for almost 2 decades and the same goes for All-Access (Formerly Mediabase). They have various reports that you can browse through (7 day, Spincrease, Taking Off, Year to date), Station by station play, adds from station to station etc. I also have my dj site which has had over 50,000 listens in two years despite the fact I haven't posted any new mixes in over a year. My years of experience in this arena gives me a lot of insight to what is popular and what is not. What song types get the crowd going and what doesn't. As much as "bro country" may have run its course in Nashville, it is also the reason in my opinion that Nashville artists like Luke Bryan, Cole Swindell, Gilbert Brantley, Jason Aldean, Eric Church and others became popular. If you listen to what the fans say, a lot of them call those guys "sell outs" with some of the things they are putting out now. And I can relate that back to what happened in the mid 90's too. Country music took off with songs from artists like Clint Black,Garth Brooks. Clay Walker, Travis Tritt, Mark Chesnutt, Alan Jackson, Confederate Railroad, Joe Diffie etc. etc. But by the mid 90's, radio was moving away from songs like "Friends In Low Places", "It Sure Is Monday", "Guitars, Cadillacs etc.", "Trashy Women", and replacing it with Brian White and what a lot of people refer to as "pop country". That went on for years and the popularity in clubs and overall suffered because of it. But their loss was Texas music's gain. Suddenly it took off and right up until the "bro country" became popular, it stayed that way. Then suddenly the roles were reversed, people began tuning into Nashville again and Texas music started tapering off. Now with the indications that "bro country" is headed out the door, I think you'll see Texas country take off again. And I honestly think that neither Nashville or Texas labels realize that one hand influences the other. I think writers like Kevin Fowler and Pat Green opened a lot of eyes in Nashville. They began to look for a way to share the spoils and thus the birth of "bro country". History repeats itself.
If you ever check out the scope of the things I write, you'll see a lot of "bro country" and "drinking songs" in my work. If I have them, you can bet their are thousands and thousands of aspiring writers who are suddenly being left with a product they can't sell in Nashville. So what do they do next? Naturally, they go to the next option. Who would that be? An artist perhaps in Texas? Can you see where my thinking is going with this? I'll be the first to admit, I have no idea about many, many aspects of the music business. But I do have a leg up in other aspects. Specifically, my years as a dj. I've met a lot of people doing that and I've had years of experience playing to a crowd. Learning what makes them tick and what doesn't. In Texas nightclubs, Taylor Swift, Rascal Flatts types don't. In teen angst groups and housewives sitting at home or office workers at their desk, it does. Radio play and the stats that Nashville does look at are a double edge sword in my opinion. Most men are out working in jobs where they can't call in and request a song all day. A lot of women on the other hand are employed in jobs where they can or are at home where they can. They call, request a song, it all goes into a data base and influences what is recorded down the road. A lot of the men who complain because they hate that kind of music, don't understand that it is either their wives or themselves who are to blame for it. When they have a broken heart and they call a radio station ten times in two weeks to request the same sad song that reminds them of losing their girlfriend, they are contributing to the same music that at other times, they complain about. Valentine's Day is a perfect example. Just look at what types of songs are requested endlessly on that day. Compare it to the ones requested on Friday and Saturday nights. Then you'll see that there is a method to the madness. And this isn't something that just occurred to me out of thin air either. I've spent countless hours in clubs as well as speaking with radio personalities, a few artists, club managers and station managers. I'm a member in good standing of that "in crowd". And the "party crowd" as well. And as a dj, those air plays and stats affected me too. Because then a song comes out, the record comes to the club or station, and you're obligated to play it. The next thing you know, you either have 20 women standing in front of you or calling in to request it, over and over and over. Or you have 20 guys calling in and complaining to you, "Why don't you play something good?" They just don't understand the business of it from that aspect.
In recent years, I admittedly avoided club life. It's like being a rock star. Certain things are expected from you and at some point it becomes a rough life to live through. Since our talks (MAB) about getting out and meeting people, I've begun to consider getting back into that lifestyle. Going to clubs, being a dj again even if it's a part time, fill in gig. I'm not in my 20's anymore. I'm in my late 40's. I liken it to a teenager who writes a 7 minute heavy metal guitar riff. Never realizing that when they get in their 50's, they aren't going to have the energy or stamina to perform that way song after song for an hour. And I'm sure you guys can relate when I say that the best club dj's have a lot of energy. They have to if they want to get the crowd into it and grow the club's popularity. It's the business of it. With music, the only obstacle I see between me and air time or club play is getting the right person to record it and create the sound I'm searching for. Once that happens, I know people I can push it to. It's just meeting the artists, writing good material and getting it recorded that are obstacles I see standing in my way. I'm not trying to come across cocky. But I do know how to sell myself. There are just certain things that I have a lot of confidence in when it comes to my abilities. I can farm the land, run telecommunications and trucking businesses, sell a product, and turn a funeral into a keg party. For me, it's like combing my hair. I've done it enough to know how.
Hope you guys are having a great day. God bless!,
Wesley,
As far as "getting back into clubs" or Dj'ing, etc. that is not exactly what I've encouraged you to do. I have suggested you try to find out where writers and artists congregate. Actually the NSAI group in DALLAS/Ft. Worth is a good place to start. They also have writers nights at the Stockyards and other places. I believe that would be a good start. Understanding some fundamentals of writing and learning a bit more about working with other people would be the good first steps to getting you "back out there."
For me, getting into the "DJ' part, doesn't really have much to do with the creative side, more of playing what is already there, much like a cover band doesn't really have that much to do with the creative side of music. They do the same things, but there are two very different approaches. I believe that if you want to have a vibrant songwriting community, you have to help build that community. You see, it is my experience that about 90% of a successful career is about supporting other people. Every break I have gotten from higher level writers, artists, labels, producers, publishers, pluggers, have all been due to my support of them first. It is not so much about US as writers as the VALUE we bring to other people's games.
But I think you have to start off a little lower. One of the problems with people that "drop out" or "are just getting back into... whatever" is that so much changes around them in their absence. And it is also about adjusting to different dynamics to whatever situation you are going into.
A thing that really struck me hard was after a pretty successful rock career outside of Nashville for over a decade, was that I had to start all over again when moving to Nashville. One of the problems people have when they come from Texas, California, New York, Chicago, you name it, is that they have to start all over again, irregardless what they have done before. It is what so many Texans who have had bad experiences and get into the "Screw Nashville" mind set. The reality is that they would make US start over if we were to move to Texas. That is just part of business. It doesn't always translate over.
A similar things happen to college kids who spend four, or six years working on a degree in college, and then find out their degree doesn't translate to anything they do in the business they want to go into. Really happens a LOT when it comes to people here going to some form of music college. They are in for a REALLY Big awakening.
So I do believe you have to "get out of the living room." But I also think you have to adjust to the new dynamics of the places you move to or the situations you start being around. Always starting over. Reinvention is what we do on a daily basis.
MAB
MAB
Could you give some examples of things you've done in the past, and ideas you have to support artists that we may not think of initially, i.e. "the obvious ones" ways more creative to help artists coming up you may not have done per say but in hindsight would have been a "good idea at the time" moment...? Just curious if you have any we may not have thought of...
Could you give some examples of things you've done in the past, and ideas you have to support artists that we may not think of initially, i.e. "the obvious ones" ways more creative to help artists coming up you may not have done per say but in hindsight would have been a "good idea at the time" moment...? Just curious if you have any we may not have thought of...
Justin,
I'm not going to be able to name any particular one, partially because I am being really hit with a monster head cold right now and am on more than a few medications. Mine have always been kind of constant. Showing up early to see other people, letting someone go on in my place in a show, giving up one of my songs in a night at the Bluebird, to get someone up onstage, even getting an artist I am working with and showcase them instead of doing something I would have rather done. Going out in terrible weather to see a friend just because you know they are not going to have anyone in the audience. Driving in terrible weather to perform on a show or a benefit that you really had no connection with but because you knew it would make someone else look good.
Giving up a slot on a major show because someone in a record company was out to see someone else and they didn't see you, but you passed someone over yourself. Talking about another writer or artist or song over your own. Staying MUCH MUCH LATER than you really should have just to support someone else. Taking a writing appointment to help benefit someone else even though you could'nt STAND the person they were wanting to write with but it was the only way they could start that relationship. Putting your own reputation on the line for someone else in writing or performing and even though you got nothing out of it, it helped someone else.
Spending physical money on a demo on a song even though you didn't feel it was the strongest of songs, to help someone's company get more catelogue, even though it would have been better spent on one of your other songs. Paying for someone else's demo or using your own political clout and favors to fund someone else's demo, helping them afford a trip to a music center or go to a workshop. Playing PEACEMAKER in a band dissagreement and even becoming the brunt of anger. Setting up a show, doing all the leg work, providing transportation, arranging lodging and then making no money yourself because you needed to get other people paid.
Hosting a songwriter's get together because no one will kick start anything. having people you don't know come to your home just to help other people get going. Even if you have your own contacts, you start thinking of other people to help them with THEIR contacts. Helping artists in their kickstarter or go fund me account.
Things like that. There are more, but I'm not really thinking that straight or being able to type that well.
MAB
The DJ idea was just a thought to get me back in the scene. I know from past experiences, when artists play the clubs, it seems easier to approach them when you're involved somehow with what is going on. Sadly there isn't much of a scene in Wichita Falls. I went online the other night and pulled up a list of upcoming events and concerts for this year. There are a few good acts but nothing spectacular. Local radio here in "Texoma" is saturated with Red Dirt/ Texas music. To give an idea how fickle and different the scene is here, a few years ago the rock band Staind cancelled a show here because they only sold 20 tickets. Yet when they played in Abilene, the place was packed. When they played in Lubbock, same thing. It's pretty pathetic to be sure. Specially for a city of this size. Same with eating out. They don't have ONE quality restaurant in the whole city. I've tried everywhere and their idea of good is my idea of substandard.
Funny you mentioned the Stockyards. I just read a thing today the Fort Worth mayor approved 23 demolition permits of the stockyards and their pens to put in a high rise with shops, apartments and some other things. Apparently there is a big uproar about it. It also just so happens when I was speaking with my friend Kevin the other night and lamenting about the local music scene, I mentioned to him that I was considering moving to the Metroplex so I would have more opportunities to participate in the things you mentioned. Unfortunately my situation limits my options. Unlike some people who are enabled by disability, I hate it. My heart and mind want to be back in the grind but I'm not so sure about the body. I have a meeting tomorrow with some people with the idea of trying to find a niche for myself back in the workplace. I applied at the biggest country music nightclub in WF for a part time, fill in gig as a dj. I have an interview on that Thursday. The idea being to supplement my disability or even obtain a position where I can eventually forego it altogether. Then maybe I can afford to do more like trips to Fort Worth,etc. Because as is, I'm just kicking a dead horse. I get enough to survive and that's it. I'm not proud to admit that but it's just the truth of it.
I was also contacted today by Zach Edwards about a song I wrote the other night called, "What Are You Doing In My Head". He is showing some interest in it. I took a page from what Justin said and just offered it to him as a freebie if he'd do it and just include my name in the credits. We'll see where that goes.
Anyway, I'm sorry you're sick. I hope you start feeling better. Best wishes!
LONE STAR STATE OF MIND
Closing down the stockyards? I hate to hear that but it doesn't surprise me. As a matter of fact, it speaks to what I am talking about. Change. The Stockyards was one of the places left that were indictive of Texas music. The White Elephant Pub and Poor David's in Dallas were hold outs against a lot of changes in Texas and I had great times there. Also playing in Austin, but I can't remember the place on 6th Street I played. It was HUGE and had an enormous mural of Stevie Ray Vaugn on the back wall. That was tough cause there was only about six people in the place in what looked like an airport hanger. Everything's big in Texas.
I don;t really want to get too much into Texas music and politics because, I'm not in Texas. I just see what goes on around the world, see things that happen in different markets, know what has happened here and get insight on what happens there from people I know from there. One guy I know has a corporate big band in Houston that plays on weekends and comes here during the week to write and perform, and network. He's been doing that for ten years. I know a lot of people that go back and forth and love em all.
I appreciate the independence of Texas, but that is tough when people want to come here. The entire State of Texas is built on rugged individualism, and the state of the Nashville music industry is built on team work. People can do a lot more on their own there than here, but here they HAVE to play on teams. It is just how the industry is. A lot of frustration comes from Texas artists and writers when they come here and suddenly everything is done by committee. It's why they don't usually last here.
And the money is not the same. Pat Green, a Texas legend, got a deal here several years ago and had a few medium sized hits. But never broke here like he did in Texas. He finally moved back saying "He couldn't take the pay cut." I do understand that. It is probably the biggest NICHE market there is. But it is a niche.
Nashville, and most of the country music industry has to worry about Des Moinse Iowa, Rockford Ill., Muncie Indiana, Stockton California, and all kinds of little cities and towns around the country, in Europe and Canada. That is what makes for an International movement and why you have artists like Keith Urban, Ed Sheeran, Steven Tyler, and all these other people coming to Nashville. It is more of an International appeal. Texas artists and writers tend to only care about Texas. That too, is fine, but they can't blame Nashville when it doesn't work that way.
And Justin, one reason I'm going to have to dissagree with you on the "Hat act making a comeback" and say that just ain't gonna happen, is because the more and more urban we get in Country music, the less and less connection people have with cowboy hats. You are now looking at a third generation who are far away from the tractor, the horse, the plow, etc. And cowboy hats. They haven't been around except as novelty outside of Texas. And people that wear them here (which are almost nobody) get made fun of with the whole "Hey, why don't you get along little doggie back to Ft. Worth."
Not fair, but it is what it is.
Closing down the stockyards? I hate to hear that but it doesn't surprise me. As a matter of fact, it speaks to what I am talking about. Change. The Stockyards was one of the places left that were indictive of Texas music. The White Elephant Pub and Poor David's in Dallas were hold outs against a lot of changes in Texas and I had great times there. Also playing in Austin, but I can't remember the place on 6th Street I played. It was HUGE and had an enormous mural of Stevie Ray Vaugn on the back wall. That was tough cause there was only about six people in the place in what looked like an airport hanger. Everything's big in Texas.
I don;t really want to get too much into Texas music and politics because, I'm not in Texas. I just see what goes on around the world, see things that happen in different markets, know what has happened here and get insight on what happens there from people I know from there. One guy I know has a corporate big band in Houston that plays on weekends and comes here during the week to write and perform, and network. He's been doing that for ten years. I know a lot of people that go back and forth and love em all.
I appreciate the independence of Texas, but that is tough when people want to come here. The entire State of Texas is built on rugged individualism, and the state of the Nashville music industry is built on team work. People can do a lot more on their own there than here, but here they HAVE to play on teams. It is just how the industry is. A lot of frustration comes from Texas artists and writers when they come here and suddenly everything is done by committee. It's why they don't usually last here.
And the money is not the same. Pat Green, a Texas legend, got a deal here several years ago and had a few medium sized hits. But never broke here like he did in Texas. He finally moved back saying "He couldn't take the pay cut." I do understand that. It is probably the biggest NICHE market there is. But it is a niche.
Nashville, and most of the country music industry has to worry about Des Moinse Iowa, Rockford Ill., Muncie Indiana, Stockton California, and all kinds of little cities and towns around the country, in Europe and Canada. That is what makes for an International movement and why you have artists like Keith Urban, Ed Sheeran, Steven Tyler, and all these other people coming to Nashville. It is more of an International appeal. Texas artists and writers tend to only care about Texas. That too, is fine, but they can't blame Nashville when it doesn't work that way.
And Justin, one reason I'm going to have to dissagree with you on the "Hat act making a comeback" and say that just ain't gonna happen, is because the more and more urban we get in Country music, the less and less connection people have with cowboy hats. You are now looking at a third generation who are far away from the tractor, the horse, the plow, etc. And cowboy hats. They haven't been around except as novelty outside of Texas. And people that wear them here (which are almost nobody) get made fun of with the whole "Hey, why don't you get along little doggie back to Ft. Worth."
Not fair, but it is what it is.
So, I wouldn't get ahead of myself on the "Texas takeover" thing. Yeah, there are a lot of Texas artists that come here, and some do well. But do a little digging and you will find they are playing on teams. They have to. There are a lot of artists from Oklahoma, Carolina, Alabama and Georgia here too. Got to keep it in perspective.
Wes, you have to get out however you can. The reason I mentioned Justin to you in the first place is that he was exactly where you are now a couple years ago. And I know distance ,your health all play a factor. That is another reason for teamwork.
On this site, if you want to know about distance, try John Westwood and Arty Rocks. They live in AUSTRAILIA, where your five hour drive is an afternoon outing for them. You could put Texas INTO Australia. They are about a TEN HOUR drive just to go get a beer. So it's all relative.
And as far as disability. Another guy you need to reach out to is WAGS. He lives in Missouri and drops by from time to time. Through this site he hooked up with Matt Casey, another member who drops by from time to time. (There's a lot of that that goes around! LOL!) Through their combined efforts, the wrote a song, PLAIN WHITE TEE, which won the NSAI songwriting contest about three years ago. Since then Matt has formed his own publishing company and represents some of Wag's songs. They both have other things going on, as we all do, but it does speak to how team work comes in.
What you and Justin are trying to do is the same thing. Working with artists, other writers, building your own teams. I think you have to find the right people, in fact, a TON of right people. But I think it can be done. Now, again, as always I tell you to keep your expectations level and goals ACHIEVABLE. That is the key. If one of those dreams are hearing your song on the radio, stay at that. It might be on the radio the same way Justin's are out there, Might be Texas radio or might be bigger. Stranger things have happened. But just keep at it. Write and enjoy yourself.
You Damn Texans might succeed despite yourselves. LOL!
MAB
On the stockyard thing, I don't think they are going to rid themselves of the tourist part of it. Just the pens and part of the mule barn. Something to that effect. Basically the things that originally made the stockyards the stockyards. Less cattle industry, more tourist attractions. And yeah, we are a different breed. "Cliquish" I think would be a good term. Specially in the small towns. A lot of rivalry, friendly and otherwise, from one to the other. Growing up if I went cruising over to another town, it wasn't long before I had a confrontation with guys from there because I was in "their" town dating women they thought should be "reserved" for them. For the most part, I love it here. But when I traveled a lot around the world, I also learned a different way of thinking about stuff. So there are some things some Texans are stubborn about that I'm not. And as a former manager, I'm all about teamwork. Teamwork is essential to any business or person in management's success. That's just a fact. If you don't work well with others, you will not succeed. And that applies to a lot of things in life as well. But yeah, we have a tendency to march to our own drum.
Hope you are feeling better. Best wishes!
WEs,
Ain't called the LONE STAR STATE for nothing! I understand it. Texans have always HAD TO FEND FOR THEMSELVES. They weren't quiet America, Not quite Mexican? They were the first illegal immigrants! LOL! Except they were all trying to "invade Mexico!!!!LOL! Just kidding. I don't get political here but that is part of it. The independent spirit Texans have is admirable and I wish more people had it.
But what has always gotten me is when they come to Nashville musically and want US to adhere to what THEY want to do. And get mad when we don't. A lot has to do with LENGTH OF SONGS. If you notice on the other site, the BMI site, you are commenting on other people's songs. And you yourself have had several songs on there. Do you notice something about all of those?
THREE AND FOUR VERSES. THEN A BRIDGE, then often, a chorus that changes.
You see, in the rest of the listening world, especially in America, NOBODY HAS THAT KIND OF TIME TO LISTEN TO MUSIC. We are lucky to get them to listen to a verse and a chorus. Which is why the entire STREAMS phenomenon, is so misleading. Just because someone gets 30 million STREAMS doesn't mean they are listening to the whole song. In fact, over half of those are just listening to about 8 seconds of a song. The entire theory behind PANDORA (opening Pandora's box) is when you like one type of music, they serve up another fifty of the same type songs. That doesn;t mean that the people viewing it is actually LISTENING TO ANY OF IT. Same with "FACEBOOK "LIKES." Doesn't mean people actually "LIKE" you. Just means they clicked a button. Usually to get someone to "like" them back.
A Nashville writer works with a LOT of songs with a LOT of people. Only way to build skills, only way to get co-writers and artists, only way to extend a career. Buying lottery tickets. The more you do it, the better your chances.
There are a lot of people who believe in QUALITY OVER QUANTITY. And that is true. But till you get QUANTITY, you don't get QUALITY. It is a physical impossibility.
So some really great Nashville writers will get more information in a song, in two verses, usually than most people take in four verses. There will be more hooky songs, and more layered information. In Texas, with the long standing "around the campfire" songs, they will take a long time to tell their story. That works when you are the only one out there doing something. When you are in with thirty to fifty other writers, all waiting on their shot, it changes a lot. People tune out faster.
And that is our current mentality in the general public. We call it "Don't bore us, get to the chorus."
That is the main difference in Texas and Nashville. Some like it, some don't. But if people want to come here, they need to live it, learn it, love it. And it makes you be a better, more effective writer. I have never yet met anyone that enjoys being tuned out.
MAB
MAB, speaking of being "tuned out", (which I originally read as "tuRned out"), I can't tell by your response to my question about joining a PRO if you were being sarcastic, or if you were angry. If you were being sarcastic, I get it. If I made you angry, then I owe you an apology. Was not my intent.
But I still have the question. So let me ask it a different way. When; Why; should a writer join a PRO? Is it ONLY about the money? Or are there other reasons to join? Like maybe being able to put "BMI" or "ASCAP" on your business card that you will be handing out to other writers.
phil g.
REFLECTIVE DAYS
A big part of the reason I started doing this thread several years ago, was to leave behind my own "book" of sorts for people to read. It is more or less my blog, and articles that I believe will be helpful to other people. I have tried to be detailed (Long winded) in some cases because some people have printed out things I have written and it has helped them along the way. Just had a couple in the past week that did tours just because of that. Many, like Wes here, read me on other sites and make their way here, and often we are able to help them along in ways other sites are not set up for.
I often get reflective. On days like this week, where I have been somewhat sick, I look at different things and come up with things I want to say and go over. People often post things on Facebook, pictures, performances, etc. that I have done over the past eras in my life, and take me back to what I have done. A few weeks ago in Gatlinburg, my 9th grade Math teacher showed up and we talked about the old days. People in Birmingham know me from a completely different time and style of music. And even those of you who know me from here, are seeing me from a totally different era, that of the teacher than I have ever had before.
Sometimes, even I go back and say "WHERE DID YOU LEARN THAT?" As I try to talk to you about teamwork and building your own network, I have to go back over my own and remind myself where I came from. One of the reasons I have been able to stay afloat while so many others have gone totally away, is because I was always surrounded by people who could help advise me and keep me real. A lot of these people were NOT songwriters, but people behind songwriters, artists. People who were just starting out themselves, many who had come from other companies and having knowledge they had built in other sections of the industry.
There was people like Julie Daniel, (Henry at the time), who had worked as Loretta Lynne's personal assitant for ten years. She was a SONG LOVER and came to me as the new kid in town. She took me around to some private meetings and guitar pulls. As a matter of fact. hearing Justin talk about his time at the private guitar pull with Allen Shamblin, reminded me of one of my first. There were about thirty people in this private ballroom. Julie got me in because she knew everywhere. There were about one hundred people in the room around the walls. It was packed and hot. There was an empty seat, and Julie kind of sat me in it. I was in my first Nashville guitar pull.
On one side was HARLAND HOWARD, Nashville's top songwriter. "Tiger by The Tail", "Blame it on your crying Cheatin' Low Down Beaten Hungry Heart.." and a million other ones. On the other side was this guy every body knew. That was Vince Gill.
On one side was HARLAND HOWARD, Nashville's top songwriter. "Tiger by The Tail", "Blame it on your crying Cheatin' Low Down Beaten Hungry Heart.." and a million other ones. On the other side was this guy every body knew. That was Vince Gill.
Yeah. Trial by fire.
I always did pretty well. People would invite me to stuff all the time. But I had people around me who would let me know the realities of the business. One of the first drummers on recording sessions was one of the top session players in town. John Garnder. He told me about the Inside cut.
Carson Witsett was keyboard player on my first session and in my first band. He had a dozen cuts and a couple hits. And he was still doing sessions.
Carson Witsett was keyboard player on my first session and in my first band. He had a dozen cuts and a couple hits. And he was still doing sessions.
Mary Mathews was a video producer and owner of the first music video studio in town. She was my behind the scenes manager for a while and introduced me to some of the biggest producers in town. She taught me to keep your mouth shut.
Mike Daniels was a producer and engineer that I worked with. His son was a very hot artist in town yet was sabetoged due to record company infighting and label change overs. Taught me that no matter how many things you think are happening, something totally out of your control can sink your entire career and you have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
A keyboard player I had, John Mattick who was also playing at the same time with this little band called ALABAMA. He told me about the things they went through, how tough it was to get paid even for some of the big boys.
A drummer with Suzie Boggus, who would come off tours to play with me. And showed me how to keep a band going when everyone around you would quit. Showed me how to pare down musicians to work with less.
Watching my friends, the KINLEY'S, DAVID VINCENT WILLIAMS, getting cut after cut, deal after deal, only to have them fall apart sometimes due to their own problems but sometimes with nothing to do with them.
Watching my buddy Jimmy Stewart getting a KEITH WHITLEY cut and be more excited than I've ever seen anyone get, only to have Keith be too drunk to finish the song and then DIE before he could come back and finish it. Watching him be devastated, only to have it go to number one three years after Keith died.
Watching people with record deals and climbing the charts WHILE playing with me, and finding out about the behind the scenes things they went through that cut their guts out.
Watching another friend of mine be "traded from one record label to another for a "singer to be named later." (Want a bigger football analogy?)
Watching HOLLYWOOD actors, hit artists from other genres, people with ENORMOUS Amounts of money and fame, come to town, be soaked dry,ghermed to death, and then end up with NOTHING for their effort.
Watching companies come, set up shop, make all kinds of claims and they were going to "BE THE NEW FORCE IN MUSIC" only to shut down three years later achieving nothing but bankruptcy.
Seeing writer after writer, artist after artist, move here claiming to SET THE WORLD ON FIRE, only to see them head home or just disappear six months later.
Watching people buy houses, real estate, big dreams big hopes, etc. only to find out thy got TWO HOMES, TWO INSURANCE PAYMENTS, TWO MORTGAGES. And then get underwater on BOTH HOUSES and lose them both.
Seeing people put their pension and life savings into vanity projects and ideas that "seem like a good one at the time."
People recording songs that are not there. People buying recording and sound equipment, instruments they will never learn to use. People that have their houses furnished with the bad ideas and equipment, extra CD's and other stuff they wasted money on.
Watching people get into and even win contests, only to find out how hollow a contest can be.
Divorces, break ups, losing everything.
That;'s what I have seen and why I am always guarded and while I don't want to DISCOURAGE YOU, I want to keep you reality based.
I'm lucky. I've been here a long time. Most people I have been around are all gone. I see or hear from them from time to time, but very few have hung in it. Most have other lives, families. Many are dead.
So if you learn anything from me, if you want to try to figure any of this out. Understand I am here to help you. But I also know what you are GOING TO GO THROUGH. I've seen it all.
Better ask me before you go diving off a cliff.
Hello Everyone,
I am proud to say that I am taking MAB's advice. Since there is not much going on here, I am starting something.
I have arranged to present a FREE Community Concert featuring the Rhoades Brothers and a guy from my neighborhood. The trick now is how to promote it. If it is successful then it may become an annual thing with more people playing various instruments. It will be in May. It may turn into something big, who knows?
Wish me luck.
Eddie Rhoades
I am proud to say that I am taking MAB's advice. Since there is not much going on here, I am starting something.
I have arranged to present a FREE Community Concert featuring the Rhoades Brothers and a guy from my neighborhood. The trick now is how to promote it. If it is successful then it may become an annual thing with more people playing various instruments. It will be in May. It may turn into something big, who knows?
Wish me luck.
Eddie Rhoades
Good on ya Eddie!!! Hope it works out.
To piggy back on MABs point, we do hear a lot longer songs, and tolerate them more here, but I learned quickly from MAB unless requested from the artist for a song for the Texas Country market, I will always try to write to the Nashville bar as best I can.
Saw an interesting tidbit/song study the other day... Over the last three years 97% off of top ten country songs have had more than two choruses...
In the last 2 years every top ten country song has gotten to the chorus in under 48 seconds WITH the new exception now being "Burning House" by Cam which took 64 seconds, but still held to the 3-4 minute rule, interesting study as even with the prolonged time at the beginning, there is no instrumental or significant break between the chorus and the bridge. Pretty interesting...
To piggy back on MABs point, we do hear a lot longer songs, and tolerate them more here, but I learned quickly from MAB unless requested from the artist for a song for the Texas Country market, I will always try to write to the Nashville bar as best I can.
Saw an interesting tidbit/song study the other day... Over the last three years 97% off of top ten country songs have had more than two choruses...
In the last 2 years every top ten country song has gotten to the chorus in under 48 seconds WITH the new exception now being "Burning House" by Cam which took 64 seconds, but still held to the 3-4 minute rule, interesting study as even with the prolonged time at the beginning, there is no instrumental or significant break between the chorus and the bridge. Pretty interesting...