Marc-Alan Barnette
#4025
Hey folks,

Sorry I haven't been around. Been a very busy week. This week is CRS, or the COUNTRY RADIO SEMINAR, which is THE biggest "Dog and pony" show in Nashville. It is the new music convention where every major radio DJ, Programmer, vendors, owners, managers, etc. are all in town to intereact and connect with the ENTIRE RECORDING INDUSTRY. Every major artist, the new up and comers, the independents about to break, the older "yesterday's news" and everything in between A WHOLE LOTTA WANNA BE'S all converge downtown for four days of music, business and some really intense DRINKING and PARTYING!

The labels put on public and private showcases, strutting the stuff radio is going to be getting in this coming year. The new trends or attempts at trends will be on display. There will be private shows in some of the clubs, closed to the public and VIPS  only. There will be a lot of public shows (for the people playing nearly a thousand dollars to participate) and other events going on. A huge convention center showroom for vendors, merchandise people, managers, agents, artists, fan booths. Most will do "station IDentification tags for the stations "Hey, this is BRAD PAISLEY on WkXX in Portland! You have the HOTTEST COUNTRY in the Great Northwest!" Takes all day for some artists to record all those things.

There will be the interviews pictures taken and generally trying to schmooze the industry to play records in the future. For all the talk of the Internet, streaming, going viral, Terrestrial radio is still by far the place most people get their music and that is not going away. Internet is the way to continue the trends but with BILLIONS of people on there, Terrestrial radio is still responsible for about 85% of new and existing listeners to music. And  I don't think that is going to change any time soon. Although you will continually hear a lot of people saying "Radio is dead... and all that. I wouldn't buy too much into that. I'll believe that when I see it.

Tonight I make my annual pilgramage down. There is a huge bar, the BRIDGE BAR that I lovingly refer to as the "LAZY RIVER BAR RIDE" for all us people doing this. Around a thousand people will be wandering in and out, floating back and forth to tables, booths, seats, to rub elbows, hob nob, and try to interact with the industry. The new WANNA BE'S will all be there trying to get attention, the older dogs will be trying to avoid attention (or try to maintain being in the limelight) publishers and pluggers will be trying to get appointments with managers and agents, the attorneys will be in full display, everyone will basically be on their superficial best. With the right attitude of getting a drink, not taking it seriously and watch it pass by, it can be a LOT OF FUN. 

And instructional. There will be tid bits of information, there will be conversation on coming trends, and laughing about the ones that just died. On the docket tonight will be "the death of bro country" (Thank God), the terrible state of the industry, the destruction and tearing down of Music Row, how things are no longer how it was BACK IN MY DAY!!! The costs of being in the industry, the destruction of the business by the Internet, the convoluted nature of award shows and the Internet, artists that are overlooked, and of course the CRAP THAT THEIR PLAYING ON THE RADIO!!!"

That one always tickles me because intermixed in the middle of all this ARE THE MAIN RADIO PLAYERS AND THE PEOPLE YOU WANT TO PLAY YOUR RECORDS!!!! So a lot of feet will be going into mouths and a lot of careers will be ending before they really get going because someone had a bit too much to drink and ran his/her mouth to the wrong person. Nothing like finding out that stations are not playing your record you are spending a fortune to promote all because someone said something stupid to someone at the CRS the year before. Catty business.

And it is a GHERMFEST!!! Every wanna be are trying to give people their CD's. They even set up little racks on their tables and encouraging everyone to take one. It is always predictable. The people that do this are mostly the older artists, who have the 70's hair and rhinestone suits that looks like they just walked out of the country music hall of fame exhibit from 1975. There will be the "Kenny Rodgers" silver fox look alikes, the "She really is coming out of that too tight dress that she should have stopped wearing ten years ago" and the "Here is our over 45 year old band members, with our too tight wranglers and our cowboy hats from the Garth Brooks era of the 90's. 

And of course EVERY PARENT MOMANGER AND DADANGER will be on display with their future Taylor Swift and Hunter Hays wanna be's. All thinking THEIR KIDS ARE DIFFERENT. Funny to say that when they are all wearing the EXACT same things. There will be a whole ton of "redneck cap acts" wearing the same plad shirts, sunglasses and their baseball caps either forward or backward. The Eric Church knock offs. 

It is a funny time. But after about three hours, I'll be done and ready to head home. I no longer do the ten hour, end up drinking in the bar at five in the morning. But I've done a few of those. Just no longer have the energy nor inclination. Let em have it. I'll see some friends I was supposed to call the day after last year. And a bunch of guys from my generation trying to display their own acts, and keep their contacts rolling. There is some legitimacy to it. It is our giant FRANTERNITY PARTY. Hope I remember to wear my fez and class ring. LOL!

Before that I am playing the COMMODORE. Tonight is going to be interesting because on Monday we lost one of our really good friends, Tommy Turner. Tommy was somewhat of a fixture over the past five or six years. A 70 plus year old guy, who had been in the Union for decades, was always a smiling goodwill ambassador for the town and songwriting. Funny funny guy always a great fun to be around. 

All of the songs I am doing are reflective, yet not morose. I'll be pulling some from the past, THE BEGINNING, my humorous look at death, and MY WISH, the song I used to end with, until a huge Rascal Flatts hit with the same title forced me to shift to TABLES AND CHAIRS. I'll be doing a brand new one I wrote for my Uncle Richard, "WHAT THEY LEAVE BEHIND" which is as appropriate for Tommy. Gonna do "24 NOTES" since Tommy was as 20 year Navy man. And a couple "special things, one I wrote with Norm and Allen Shervelle, TRYING MY BEST TO LIVE, and my ode to dreamers, "THE BIGGEST RISK IS TAKING NO RISK AT ALL."

So it's gonna be a full night. Then this weekend will be a Cajun filled show at Richard's cajun cafe and then join up with Matt Casey who is here, doing his New England to Nashville (NETN) benefit show. 

So yes, the MAB is back in business. Two tours so far this week, a full recording session for one of mine and OD's songs, and a whole lot of tributes. 

As a little extra for you, I don't remember if I ever posted this. It is a song called FANTASY FOOTBALL TEAM that I wrote with Stacy Young, from Missouri. We wrote it about five years ago and this past year was cut by a trio of girls, SOUTHERN SIRENS. They did a really cool video which I have posted on some places, but couldn't remember if i did it here. After last week's Super Bowl, (Yeah pretty good for Old Peyton)  it was pretty appropriate. Hope you like it.

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Big Ed Moore
#4026
Hi everybody! CRS is about one thing. Record company people, kissing the asses of all the radio people for obvious reasons. LOL! Everything else is merely a side show. People go down there thinking they will meet people to sign them, but those people are completely occupied with the Radio people, so it ain't gonna happen. The parties are always fun though! There are other, all format Radio Conferences in other places, but CRS focuses on only Country stations, so it's a better hunting ground for the Promotion people from the Record Companies in Nashville. By the way, a lot if not all of the expenses of the Radio Station people for this conference are paid for by the Record Companies! Good deal if you program a Country Station! They get wined and dined real good and get some high end entertainment to boot. I've been to many Radio conferences, but I always worked for the Record Companies, so I was never the one getting wined and dined. LOL!
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John Westwood
#4027
Ive been busy watching all the   comedy  about  your election campaigns and  now  ours is about to kick off,

 A little ray  of sunhsine came my way last  Monday........ I was advised by APRA  ( our version of BMI) that  I should check out my  account  and  my royalty statement.
Seems someone somewhere liked "tainted alibi '   and so I  now have enough  money  to  buy 1/8 of a can of coke . :)

https://www.songramp.net/musicsharing/listen/music_118/


Like
Ott Lukk
#4028
Marc: I did check out the home page of  "Music Starts Here".  Looks impressive; it struck me that this could be "Facebook/Nashville", but not Facebook. Get enough participants, and it could be the go-to site!  Maybe you guys can go public in a few years!  Also, enjoyed listening to and watching "Fantasy Football Team", very nicely done. Though, as a relapsed male chauvinist pig, I would have preferred skimpy cheerleader outfits in the  video!
John: I listened to "Twisted Alibi". Nice cut! And congrats on that large check!!
Ott
Like
Marc-Alan Barnette
#4029
Hey folks,

Good to hear from all of you. Great perspective on CRS Ed. My thoughts exactly. I actually missed it this year just like I did last year. It actually quit a day earlier. Since I just go to laugh at people, I didn't miss much.

John, your experience pretty much matches anyone else I know in the industry. Always brings me back to the question I have always had, "Why does anyone ever expect to make money in this industry?" Never get much of an answer on that one.

Ott, thanks for viewing the videos and particpating. I like the girls in the video. And it was their idea to do the video in that way. I had nothing to do with it. In fact, I didn't even know about the song being cut until the video link was sent to me. I don't know the girls or anything about them other than they cut that song. The song was written between five and six years ago and frankly something I forgot about. My co-writer did the leg work on it. She is quite a cute girl herself so writing the subject matter of the song was pretty easy to do. Glad those girls did it and another interesting thing about writing.

For all your techies, Ed, Kevin, Phil or others keeping up with the "streaming/free/paid subscription "(FREE") music world, I have a question. How come SPOTIFY and PANDORA, while seemingly ruling the roost when it comes to music streaming (and in my opinion part of the reason we no longer get PAID for anything) are ALWAYS TRYING TO RAISE MONEY, ALWAYS LISTING LOSSES, ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT GOING INTO BANKRUPTCY? If they have such a great business model and supposedly are worth so much (although this article claims Pandora is now worth $1.8 Billion dollars DOWN from EIGHT BILLION DOLLARS just a couple years ago) why are they having money worries at all? They should be flush with cash and subscribers.


For all the claims of how much they are paying songwriters,  they are constantly having to come up with NEW DEALS, and then there is not ONE SONGWRITER I KNOW IN ANY FACET OF THE BUSINESS CLAIMING TO MAKE ANYTHING ON THESE SERVICES. They are all like John, literally pennies and tenths of pennies.

Could it be what I have always said that ONCE YOU MAKE SOMETHING FREE YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO COLLECT ON IT? 

Oh well. AS one of those OLD dinosaurs who believe that the Internet has pretty much ruined an industry, I'll just wait and see when they finally pull off all these supposed riches they have hidden somewhere. Personally I believe all these services are the same people behind the Nigerian General scam and one day will end up in a cell with Bernie Madoff for perpetrating fraud on the entire music world.

But I'm not BITTER. LOL!

MAB
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Phillip (phil g.) Grigg
#4030

MAB, I actually saw that video already. Did you post a link to it on FB also? The girls look fine in those outfits. They sell the SONG, NOT their sexuality. The way music should be presented. Just one of the reasons I don't care for pop. Almost all of the female singers try to sell themselves rather than the song. And what about that super bowl show? Not sure I care too much for Beyoncé that much anymore either.


MAB, I'm not sure any of those streaming services have ever claimed to "pay songwriter's royalties". The only claims I've ever seen from them is how much they pay in royalties to record companies and publishers. Maybe they are paying [some] royalties to the PRO's? I don't think those services really understand the music business, and I don't think they care either.


I'm not sure how songwriters even make money these days. UNLESS you are one or the 1% (NO, NOT the 1% politicians talk about LOL) who is lucky enough, good enough, to work directly with the few top artists in the industry??


Oh yes MAB. I saw on FB you were bringing out some of your older songs that have to do with reflecting on life. A tribute to your friend Tommy Turner. And I think a couple other friends of yours

 that have left us. If you have any kind of recordings of those songs, would you share them with us in open mic?


phil g.

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Marc-Alan Barnette
#4031
Phil, 

I will post some songs on here shortly. I really don't like doing that that much. Don't even like doing it on Facebook, but when co-writers and other people send links to me, I put them up to help them, like the recent things with Big Ed and the 24 NOTES song. The fact is that I really don't care to promote myself that much. I write so many songs with so many people I forget most of them. It is a bad trait I have. And with some things, like Frankie and other people, they are involved with deals so I don't want to cause a problem with them before they give me a go ahead. 

I'll try to do it soon. 

Well I'm off to get Matt Casey. he is in town for another NETN showcase. Talk about a go getter! That guy has created his own niche putting on shows, and built a 200 plus artist and writer network through Facebook. We'll have a show tomorrow night. I also have an earlier show so this is going to be a big weekend. Sunday is the tribute to Tommy Turner, so it just keeps on coming, because Monday is the SUTLER, which is a new room I want for the new huge big band I am involved in. Just keep going and going. The Energizer Bunny is still out there running.

MAB
Like
Big Ed Moore
#4032
Hey MAB, could you tell everyone a bit about Kim Williams, who just passed. You must have your own story or two about him. I've heard a lot from Rich Fagan, Randy Boudreaux and Max Hutchinson already, but not yet from you. He sure will be missed by a lot of people. Great writer!
Like
Justin Parker
#4033
It's sad to hear of his passing... Never knew the man but one must say his music will live on for sure! Every one speaks so highly of him, what a great tribute when people only have great things to say when someone is gone and great memories, love hearing yalls...

Phil's.. Frank did remember you quite well, I didn't even have to spurn his memory. To be honest I was wayyyy out of my league in the room with him. Of course when we swapped songs I had goosebumps, his writing approach was very different as he said he didn't cowrite often. He's been writing and playing literally longer than I've been on this earth. Super cool guy and he had a few songs he was basically done with but needed a bridge, he was adimate it went a certain direction and I think he let me in on a great song as a courtesy as a third writer, he literally "got the coffee" but I had the syndrome... LOL it was a great "hang" regardless and he invited me to a festival Allen Shamblin puts on in Texas in a couple months where he and Allen are in a round with some killer writers, it's a great show. He did make me laugh more in awe when I discussed three recent cowrites with my friend Josh Fuller and how he often played the Redneck Country Club in Stafford, RD... Frank said "man I've been trying to get in there for a couple years!!! I finally got in a couple months ago!" I asked, "How did you finally get in?" He replied "Funny story I was actually hanging out with Tracy Byrd who's a wonderful friend of mine, and I expressed my desire to play there! Tracy said, "Hold on one second!" "Then he just called up Michael right there in front of me, and said "hey I got a friend who wants to play there!" He said, "long story short their booking lady called me the next day!"
Funny little story about who you know, he wasn't name dropping but it always is a sign to me with great writers how they only mention names out of necessity, when you kind of start the story, you then know they're not bragging it was just part of the conversation. He also mentioned knowing Kim I remember, we were just small talking. But they always, always, have kind words never anything negative. I mark that as a sign of great character. But yeah Phil he remembered you distinctly.

His Allen Shamblin impression was spot on, it was hilarious.

We'll be writing again soon, he doesn't live far, he's working on songs for a new album, this one had a blues sound to it on some songs.

MAB,
you'll appreciate the kids absolute naivety on this one... As he was telling me about the festival and invited me to the private song swap they do after the show in a hotel room at the end of the evening, he described how when Allen breaks into "turn down the lights... Turn down the bed... Turn down these voices, inside my head..." The room turns silent. I was in awe and jokingly said, "Well I guess I need to brush up on a couple of mine before then."

I was greeted with the chuckle of a loving grandpa LOL like he was thinking"this poor kid hasn't got a clue."

He said laughingly, "oh! No, no, no, no, you won't be playing."

I was only teasing when I said it but his seriousness caught me off guard in the moment like basically I felt like a green horn (which I am) being patted on the head by my elder like "you gotta work a few more years son to sit down with these fellas"

We laughed, but I took a long final sip of my coffee, and devoured my large helping of humble pie!

He said, you'll get in as my guest to just listen, and I'll let Allen know we're friends, and y'all can talk and you can watch the round.

The kid quickly shut up, choked down my last piece of humble pie, and bid him farewell LOL just happy to be invited to go...

And hats off to Matt for NETN getting out and making things happen!!!! I've been watching your progress on FB brother, keep it up, always great looking flyers too!
Like
Marc-Alan Barnette
#4034
    ME AND KIM WILLIAMS



So sorry to see Kim passed away two days ago. He was a great guy, talent and talented individual…always facing what crossed his path. As brothers in songwriting, I had the honor to share in words and music, as often happens in Nashville. One particular time that comes to mind is when we passed each other as we did separate demos one day. We passed each other as he left the studio to get his copy and I got to the studio to sing my vocal. My song was a completely forgettable nothing song. His, “IF THE DEVIL DANCED IN EMPTY POCKETS," would go on to be a number one; and a huge hit for Joe Diffie.



I would get to see him at number one parties for GARTH BROOK'S on "AIN'T GOING DOWN TILL THE SUN COMES UP" and "PAPA LOVED MAMA." He seemingly always had a hit record out there, and was always around town. He overcame a tragic hot water heater accident that had occurred when he was very young, leaving him with health problems his entire life.



Earlier on in my career I played in town with a band. During the show, the band would have a break while I played a short acoustic set. Being a huge fan of Les Miserables, I would throw in “BRING HIM HOME,” which is one of my favorite songs from the musical. One of those nights, Kim Williams was in the audience. Turns out he was also a huge fan of Les Miserables, the song caught his attention and he called me the next morning. Needless to say, I was thrilled to hear from such a talent. He wanted to write that type of a song to round out his catalogue. Of course, I jumped at the chance to write with him!



We got together that following week at his office, revisited some songs from Les Miz. I worked up a guitar melody as he filled in lyrics. In an hour and a half, we had our first verse, which was somber, quiet and stirring (much different from my own catalogue, as well). Kim then pipes up and says “Man, we are writing about death here!” And, he was right. But, it was very much a power ballad. We called it a day to give Kim some rest (results from his hot water accident). I was so energized from the session with Kim, I continued on with a second verse and BIG chorus.



The next week, we got back together Kim really liked the new verse and chorus. We made a few edits and booked studio time. A couple of weeks later, we had our song done and recorded. I played it out around town, while Kim pitched it. I still play it out and it continues to be requested. One of those heartfelt, timeless songs that will find its artist owner one day.



Over the years I would see and hear Kim, and he would always get me to play that song. The last time was a couple years ago at the Smokey Mountain Songwriter's Festival, where I played it onstage in front of him, his wife and DOUG JOHNSON (Kim's co-writer on "THREE WOODEN CROSSES"). I was thrilled to be able to represent the song among such great talent and it was definitely a career high and honor to be able to do and receive their complements.



So he passed on Wed. and all the tributes are coming out. I hope to post mine and that song on Facebook. I am still very proud of it and proud of my association with Kim. As you will read from all the various postings and articles, he was an absolute jewel of a guy and a great inspiration to all who want to try to write and do something creative. He touched us all in so many ways. This was mine.



Thanks Kim,

MAB 
Like
Marc-Alan Barnette
#4035
Yeah Justin,

You know that saying I have, YOU ARE NOT A JEDI YET."? That is part of what that means. Sure, you have started doing some writing with other people, artists, and yes, you are starting to be accepted as a friend. It is still a LONG way before you are on an even playing field. Will be a while before you play with the big boys, even if you get a little chance here and there. Sometimes a lot of these things are done out of the pro being nice, or just feeling like they are "giving back." But that doesn't qualify as "playing on the team." They let the underclassmen run a play every now and then too, but doesn't mean that they have suddenly made the "A" team.

Another fact of life that most people don't realize. TIME is the big equalizer. Until you have put in the physical years of being around, waiting in line, dealing with the crushing defeats, and done the SAME THING THEY HAVE, you are still not in that league.

I remember my own "humble pie" being put into a round with monster writers Paul Craft and one of my favorites DUANE BLACKWELL. It was in Tallahassee Fla, and I had been brought down to "play with the big boys." Duane was one of my favorite writers, having written GONNA HIRE A WINO TO DECORATE OUR HOME and FRIENDS IN LOW PLACES. The show was amazing and he and Paul seemed to be wowed by me. Every song I did hit home runs, the audience was in the palm of my hand and he and Paul would be saying "Damn! after my lines, "That boy can sing!!!" "Damn, I hate to follow that..." all those kinds of things. I really did kill em!

The next day, I was thinking "I'M IN NOW, HERE'S MY BIG BREAK!" We were all in this enormous mansion on the banks of the ocean. We all kind of had our own wings in this place. But there was a common area with a kitchen, and breakfast area. That morning, I went in to all these fresh baked pastries, coffee and newspapers. The people who owned the house were sponsors of the show and loved songwriters. So they turned their home over to us. I was sitting there for a little while when Duane comes in. I was pretty excited and he sat down and started reading the paper over coffee. We made small talk about his career, he was very nice and complimentary about the night before. Not over complimentary just very nice. 

So I decided to go for it. "So..."  I said. "When are we going to write?"
He barely looked up from his pastry and paper and said really matter of factly, "THAT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN."

BOOOM!!!! I was shot down so fast my head spun. 

The real reason was not that he didn't think I was good. He did. He was just trying to get out of the music business and move to Mexico and no longer HAD to write with anyone. He was on his own planet and certainly was not going to have to wet nurse new up and comers with stars in their eyes. 

He gave me some great insights. And even thought at that time I had been here for about ten years, it was still like I was the new underclassman. But it taught me a lesson. Just when you think you have arrived, you are only at the gate. You may get to park their car, but you ain't going to be driving any time soon.

Justin, remember that while you have been writing, doing Internet stuff, comedy, etc. for a long time, you are BRAND NEW to this playing field. They will see you, get to know you, and  maybe one day invite you in a little bit. But you can't read more into it. And you have to also be aware that THEY MAY NEVER TAKE YOU AS AN EQUAL. I know a lot of writers and artist who are great, are talked about and revered. But still are not invited into the inner sanctums. I'm kind of one of those.

YOU ARE NOT A JEDI YET. But at least you got to see a light sabre demonstration.

MAB
Like
Big Ed Moore
#4036
Thanks for sharing Marc! Here's a brief article about Kim Williams that's worth a read.
Like
Wes Tibbets
#4037
I came into the Q & A with the intention of reading it before I posted any questions. Once I saw there were a 162 pages, I decided I'd skip it all for now and read it when I have the free time. As such, I have no doubt I'll probably post questions that have been answered before. Please forgive me for that. And no doubt I will have more questions based upon the answers I receive. Forgive me for that too.

First, let me introduce myself to those of you who don't know me. My name is Wes Tibbets. I'm a 46 year old, single Dad of three kids from Wichita Falls, Texas. I grew up in a one horse town 70 miles North of Abilene, TX called Rochester. My family are all farmers. I grew up the son of a farmer with all the perks and hardships that come with that way of life. Rochester is in middle of nowhere. The nearest McDonalds is 70 miles away and the nearest Walmart is 30. In this day and age, that is pretty isolated. I started writing 12 years ago in 2004. I woke up one night with a song in my head. I'd heard them many times in my head for a lot of years. But that was the first time I wrote one down. I'm a member of several forums and even served as a moderator for one years ago. I wrote religiously from 04-09 but tapered off after I was seriously injured in a wreck. I had been saving money towards having a professional demo done and once the bottom fell out, that money and practically everything I owned was sold or used for us to survive. I've been divorced twice and won custody of three kids from the two marriages. I raised them all until last year. In 2014, I spent the year in the hospital undergoing 11 of 13 surgeries on my spine. It left me disabled with permanent nerve damage in my left leg. I was told I would never walk again without a cane or walker. But I like to prove people wrong and I'm proud to say that I now can walk unaided without even a limp. Unfortunately, my ex took advantage of the time I was in the hospital and was able to wrangle custody of my two youngest away from me. Last year, I moved to Wichita Falls, Texas and started over. It's been quite an adjustment to say the least. One of things I've done is to start writing again. I spend a lot of time alone and I find it to be a good way to interact with others and express myself. My goal in music is to some day write a song that is played on the radio. Even if it is only locally and only played once. I am simply a wordsmith. I hope to pick up the guitar and perhaps someday take singing lessons. Because believe me when I say I could use some. Not that it will help but it sure couldn't hurt. Well that's it folks. I could write a book about the places I've been and the things I've been through. It's been a tough road. But I won't do that. I'll just leave it at this and elaborate on other things on a need-to-know basis as we move along.

The first question I would like to ask is....Which is better, ASCAP or BMI? I notice some folks belong to BMI and some to ASCAP. Is there an advantage of one over the other? What is the big difference between the two? The pros and the cons too please of one over the other? 

God bless and best wishes to all,

Wes
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Marc-Alan Barnette
#4038
Hey Wes, great to have you over here.
M
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1 liked
 likes this.
Peggy Burnham
#4039
Welcome Wes, It sure sounds like you have a lot to write about. Please post some of your lyrics for us to see.
Good luck
Peggy
Like
Wes Tibbets
#4040
Thanks Marc,
I appreciate it. Thanks for inviting me to pick you folks mind about stuff. Be careful what you wish for lol. But seriously, I do appreciate it. Best wishes!

Peggy Burnham said...

Welcome Wes, It sure sounds like you have a lot to write about. Please post some of your lyrics for us to see.
Good luck
Peggy





Hi Peggy,

It's nice to meet you too. I've actually been posting in the lyrics forum for quite some time and on open mic a little last year. I have several lyrics in the threads and collaborations in open mic. You're more than welcome to check them out and I thank you in advance. I look forward to getting to know you on here. Best wishes!
Like
Marc-Alan Barnette
#4041
"The first question I would like to ask is....Which is better, ASCAP or BMI? I notice some folks belong to BMI and some to ASCAP. Is there an advantage of one over the other? What is the big difference between the two? The pros and the cons too please of one over the other?"

Good question there Wes. I'm fighting the effects of a double dose of Niquil right now and a bit of a head cold but I'll do my best to answer your question. 
Most would come down to where your Grammy's come from. If you are collecting on your second million of sales and have 35-40 million streams, and collecting your awards from the West Coast, ASCAP would probably be best for you. They have a better helicopter pad, and the best colors in Limosines. The parties that you would attend would be much more elaborate and I find their ice sculptures to be much more lifelike.

If you are collecting from the East Coast, and the ceremonies are at Carnegie Hall, BMI would probably work better. They have a better understanding of the Upper East Side traffic patterns and their town cars, are much more spacious, and the wet bars are better stocked with snacks and alcohol. Their parties are usually held at CBGB's which is an interesting thing because that club was closed in 1979, and is now a parking garage. But a lot of their members like to go to the parking garage and proclaim allegiance to their Sun Gods in ritual sacrifices. 

So the real decision should be made by you depending upon your affiliation and Grammy's.

Or you can flip a coin. Either way about the same.

MAB
Like
Marc-Alan Barnette
#4042
Sorry, I had to do that. the truth is it is six of one and a half dozen of the other. Unless you have significant terrestiral airplay, a LOT OF STREAMS, involvement in mainstream television or movies, they are really not going to make much difference at all. They are collection agencies. 

If you got to a point where you affiliate or join, you would meet with both in addition to SESAC, and see who you like best. They all three offer workshops and have big offices. Other than that, they are more or less like the MASONS. They have big buildings and people go in there, although we don't know what they do.

People will make all claims for all three. And people equally complain about all three. I always say that if you are planning on visiting, beware of the people LEAVING EACH ONE OF THEM STAMPEDING TO GET TO ANOTHER ONE. Then the amount of people LEAVING those, trying to get BACK to the place they left a year before. 

The reality is that they are all about the same. They are fielding thousands of calls a week and it takes months and sometimes years to get an appointment with either of them. Sitting down with an officer, they will ask you why you are there, look at you somewhat quizzical and then tell you the story of their foundings. They will ask you who you are writing with and try to see if it is someone notable that they know. They will try to see what you are doing in co-writing and who you are working with. if you are an artist, they'll want to know where you are performing and what is the chart history of your songs.If you are looking for a publisher they will tell you to keep looking. Then they will tell you to keep doing what you are doing. Then you will be asked to leave. If you don't, security will usher you out.

No one is MAKING any money on songs any more, so it is difficult for them to tell you what to do. it is a do it yourself world and everyone is depending on someone else to help them do what they need to be working on. If you are well known in the writers community, are known around town in LA, New York or Nashville, you can usually get an appointment. If you are are not known, are in a city or town far away from those centers, they will feel you are not serious about it and need to get closer to those areas. 

It is not the most uplifting experience. The fact is they are limited now in what they can do in the era of FREE MUSIC. Our friends over at BMI , allow us to go onto that site and talk about music. I am not sure what ASCAP has because they have not had a forum for years. They both do number one parties but invite less and less people. SESAC does serve better food at their parties. 

I have friends at all three, but can count on one hand anything I have gotten out of any of them. They do take good pictures though. 

My suggestion is to quit worrying about any of that. If you graduate up the ladder, your co-writers will probably have an affiliation and will help you get an appointment that means something. Until then, you are not writing with enough people. So you have to do that first. 

I have been ASCAP since 1988. I go over to that building about once a year, usually to take someone to see the archetecture. I have taught workshops at all three and now SESAC is building a much bigger new building that they can go into without anyone seeing them come or go. Should be finished in a few months. 

Aside from that, you flip a coin. Hope this helps you.

MAB
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Wes Tibbets
#4043
To be honest, that was a stupid question. I just noticed that some people are members of one or the other. I know it really doesn't apply to me at this point. I've read through about 6 pages of this thread and it quickly occurred to me that the best thing for me to do is read and keep my mouth shut. All of the answers I have are somewhere in here anyway. I did see where Justin is in here. I really wish there were some of the music workshops in my area that was closer than DFW. They rarely ever get decent artists in here. The music scene is pretty shabby by any standards. Wichita Falls is different in some ways compared to a lot of places I've been. You have to be real careful when you go to a club to see someone because by ten o'clock, most of the guys are walking around looking to start a fight. The one place that does bring in acts also is the only club in town that lets the 18-21 crowd in and it makes for a lot of drunk teenagers and sticking out like a sore thumb. Whereas, if you live in Dallas, Austin or Houston, you have a network of people to meet and interact with, songwriter nights etc. It has me thinking that a lot of my connections and interactions are going to be online. Which somewhat sticks me behind the 8 ball from the get go. But that's alright, I'll either figure it out or I won't. Sorry you aren't feeling well. Hope you get better.
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Justin Parker
#4044
Hey Wes!
Great to see you over here, like I told you, it's kind of like a big family, just start talking, and we all chime in. LOL

I loved MABs answer, like I told you, it's the uncut truth, but often with humor... Lots of it. There are no stupid questions here, that can evidenced if you'll go back some and read some of mine...

Heck I'll still ask them, I'd rather ask a stupid question, and get a tough answer, than make an uniformed stupid move, and end up with a stupid real life result. Like I told you, MABs kept me from plenty of them.

My answer is not unlike MABs, once I found out the function of a PRO I kid you not... I pulled up both their websites, looked at the artists on their homepage and made my selection by which one had the most artists pictured whom I enjoyed their music!!!

That was about two and a half years ago... I have had the dream fulfilled of hearing my songs on the radio as you described, no big market station, but one that can be picked up clearly from south Houston, west to Austin, east to Beaumont and about north to Huntsville... A pretty big spread, enough to make me feel proud for sure!. I've had a few cuts with Texas Artists who had songs selling on iTunes, and Google Play, and sold CDs all that, registered all my songs, and waited... I checked my BMI account after your post yesterday I think I'm just north of $1.00 yes one dollar... I've made about twenty off YouTube, and about $500.00 on a few non exclusive mechanical license contracts, I've got the "right" to go back to audit the artists playing my songs and make them pay the fee again, plus royalties, per my old H. Fox contract, whom I think was sold recently, but as MAB always says, it's about relationships, I am satisfied knowing I've got someone playing a song in Nashville somewhere at least three or four times a week, and also in Texas, it's a neat feeling just to know they like it enough to play it.

I wouldn't go chasing them down for an extra $72.50 or whatever it was for the rights for X amount of hard copies, for a year and my .007 cents a download. My relationship with an artist is worth far more, than that chicken feed...

It's neat to be with a PRO for anything but being able to say "I'm affiliated with... XYZ" but in reality, it's just something that adds a very slim bit of clout when with other artists, very, very, slim that says "I'm serious about what I do."

I just held my nose and picked one... Heard good and bad about both...
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Phillip (phil g.) Grigg
#4045

Hey Wes. Welcome to the family! We're all pretty friendly here. Don't be afraid to ask questions. You live in Wichita Falls. Looks like you're about 2 - 2 1/2 hrs. from Dallas/Fort Worth. You mentioned Justin Parker who is on this site. He lives in Spring, TX, about 2 hrs. the other side of Dallas. Justin has had some success in the Texas market. Seeing as you are both in Texas, I'm sure he would be glad to give you some pointers. Do a search for him here then send him a message and introduce yourself. Justin is (or was) a lyricist also. I'm sure he has some lessons learned he can share with you.


phil g.

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Justin Parker
#4046
Hey Phil,

Just to give you Texas perspective, LOL Wes living in Wichita Falls, TX is 5 hrs. and 14 min. away by car from my house!!! Only covering about 65% of the central portion of the state!!!

It's like a whole nother' country!!!

LOL
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Phillip (phil g.) Grigg
#4047

Justin, you must have been typing while I was! LOL Take over kid. I'll step back now. LOL


phil g.

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Marc-Alan Barnette
#4048
Wow! Throw a new guy over here and everyone comes out of the woodwork. Wes, good job for getting these guys out of their hibernation! Good comments folks. Wesley is a guy on the BMI site I've been trying to help out. I participate there and a couple of other ones but usually don't get as involved as I do here. But always looking to help out when I can.

Wesley, I do a lot of things with humor order to demonstrate that mostly they are things not to worry about. People, trying to do this always seem to get caught up in the wrong things. They obsess about copyrights, and LEGALLY protecting themselves, only to find out that the song they have written is exactly the same as six or seven thousand other songs down to the exact same titles and lines, even some times note for note. What they have is not remotely copyrightable. And they worry about copyrighting before they get a recording done, only to find out you have to have a sound recording to APPLY FOR A COPYRIGHT!

BMI, ASCAP and SESAC (You have to include them now) are all collection agencies and don't even come into play unless you have works being commercially exploited. If a writer doesn't have anything that is being performed or played on radio,  (BROADCAST MUSIC INCORPORATED, is what "BMI" stands for) they are not going to be collecting one dollar. And because streaming companies, like Spotify, and Pandora,  have raised how many streams you have to have before they register anything, most people are never going to see dollar one from anything.

As far as being a member, you can join at any time, except for SESAC, who has to invite you. But again, I think people try to join them prematurely. When I joined ASCAP, I had a song about to be placed in a television movie and was slated to be a single on a major artist. That artist, Shelby Lynne, was starting to come out all over the US, do television performances and concert performances all over. I also performed on three National television shows. My co-writer was with ASCAP and ASCAP at  that time were doing a series of "New comer showcases" that they were going to include me on. I was approached by two of their representatives and asked to sign with them.

That is when  you sign with any organization. When there is a demand for what you do. Now other things have happened with friends of mine through BMI, and both of them still do some things, but the entire "setting up with publishers, setting up co-writes, helping people get on radio, or film, etc. is not something any of them ever have really done. 

I am glad you asked that here and not on  the BMI site. I don't want to slam anyone, and BMI at least has that site. But one of the reasons I am on every site I'm on is because SOMEONE ASKED ME TO BE. And with the BMI site, it was a very high placed member of BMI, actually a vice president. The reason his that they get so many calls for appointments and are able to do so little, they don't have time to help most people, particularly those who are just beginning all this. So they ask pros like myself to visit and help out when I can. I enjoy it so that is how it works.

But if you want my favorite story on that, here it is:

Next Post
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Marc-Alan Barnette
#4049
                                                          ASCAP or BMI

Around year 10 of my Nashville adventure, I had many appointments writing at ASCAP. I also would drop by BMI because several writers were involved there too, so I was in and out of those offices all the time. We used to have this place we called "tourist Row" which was one block off of Music Row, in direct sight of BMI and ASCAP. People would wander all around, dressed in the bright outfits, boots, cowboy hats, usually with the Minnie Pearl price tag still attached, and basically just tie up traffic. We would say "If it is tourist season, can we just shoot em'?" They always lumbered across the street and were always so SLOOOOOOOWWW!! So we didn't have a lot of patience for them. They were going in all these cheesy souvineer shops, cars of the stars museum, Barbara Mandrell's country and a bunch more places, that have been since replaced by a string of bars that mostly college kids hang out in. 

One day I was coming into write at ASCAP, and there was a man and a woman, kind of loudly dressed, and another guy, apparently, their son (from their conversation with the receptionist) and they were trying to get someone who would "listen to his music because he was really good and Nashville needed to hear him!" The receptionist listened and then said, "Sir, we really don't do that here. We work with writers who are signed to ASCAP. But if you want to walk across the park there and talk to BMI, they will help you." The receptionist kind of looked sideways at me as she gave me my writers room number and we both kind of grinned.

A couple of hours later, I was at BMI to drop by and see someone, and they were over there, at the front receptionist. They were doing the same thing, saying the same thing. And the receptionist said virtually the same words, except said "If you go over to NSAI, they can help new writers...") An hour LATER, I was at NSAI, and the same three people filtered in there. And NSAI said "WE don't do that here without an appointment. If you go over to ASCAP..."

The reality is that NO ONE can help you at first. You have to build relationships, BEFORE any of these organizations come into play. It is like building your shelf to house your Grammy Awards BEFORE YOU HAVE WRITTEN A SONG!

Learn the craft of writing FIRST. Work with a lot of people on a lot of songs. Build relationships. Get some songs that people want to play. Get songs that people want to HEAR! Then worry about all that other stuff. It generally presents itself when it is time.

MAB
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