MAB Q&A

No, no, no -- I am taking the week off from drinking!   JPF = Just Plain Folks (jpfolks.com).  MAB used contribute there until they ran him off for telling the truth too much!

She actually has "interacted" with OD. These threads were never really a problem. It was other places. I doubt she'll be able to make Frank Brown. She is pretty involved with a lot of things right now, has a son she is deailng with, job hunting, relationship issues, trying to finish Vet school, and several other things. She would always be taken well. Just a lot of things she has been going through. That is why she reconnected with me a couple of weeks ago. 

Ain't that the truth Kevin? Man, I have had some serious trouble with getting back onto JPF. Even had private conversations with Brian,don't know what to do. But I do read along over there. 

I used to be there regularly and for the most part enjoyed it. But there are always some "NASHBASHERS" who just hate anything we talk about from Nashville. Particularly another guy from overseas who just wanted to be offensive to America,and I finally just quit going over. Then, after a couple of my computer crashes, I never could seem to get back in. Every time I go on it doesn't recognize my name or password, then when i do it again or try to reset, it tells me 'that name and password is "already in use.' I can't win for losing.

Guess, you are right, I tell the truth too much. Everyone can't understand why there is not "one central gatekeeper" specifically designed to "Keep THEM OUT OF EVERYTHING!" No matter how many times you explain it.

MAB 

Kevin, just went over and checked out the JPF peer-to-peer thread (that isn't the real name, but that is what it is). Really cool site. Might even have to become a member. That part of the web site seems to get a lot of activity! More than the old Ramp peer-to-peer thread.

I did ask Brian about your account way back when and he said:

"

Kevin,

I did all of that. No matter what I tried, it wouldn't let me back in. Even had direct conversations with Brian but nothing worked. I was having the same problems with some other web sites as well, so I just figured I was kicked off for whatever reasons. I will try to get back on though. I enjoy most of those people.

M

As with anything, it is a "get out of it what you put into it".   Meaning if you comment and critique others, they will comment on yours.  It is always good to go slow at first and find out who's who and what they are all about.   Overall, the reviews are mostly positive with some good feedback here and there.  There are other sites that will trash your song, whether you want them to or not.   Feel free to give it a try -- but dang, forums can be real time wasters!

Kevin,

Just did everything the "Forgot password' told me to do. Even copied and pasted it, and the message told me "invalid member name and password." Did it three times. LOL! i'll just read along.

M 

Philboy,  the Old Dog remembers Heather very well.  She used to be part of the Forum a few years ago and all the guys would overdose on testosterone.  She is a sweetheart of a person and quite a beautiful woman; which is what drew most guys to giving her so much attention. The Old Dog, on the other hand, saw the true caring heart she had and the intellectual mind she only shared with a few of us.
So OD was impressed with her mind and what she "Thought" ;  not by what she's "Got" .  

KevMo,  you were one of the exceptions I refered to in my other post.   You listened (not just from me but others as well) and improved on your writing by not writing lines so wordy,  you tried to fit them all in and ruin the flow of your melodic rhythm.  That was a huge improvement to your songs and I give you credit for being open to suggestions.  The Philboy and The Kid have been good about correcting that problem as well.  Which may I add, we "All" did in the beginning and had to learn not to do.   Lesson's we have all learned from The MAB and being part of his Forum.

Now about FB this year.  The Old Dog is having second thoughts about making that trip.  I have called Pam (at the Regatta) twice, emailed her once, and never heard back from her.  Not to put the blame on Pam; but because I haven't made solid arrangements yet,  it is easy for me to whimp out and declare I probably won't be there.

However, I still plan on making the trip to Nashville to see The MAB and take in RiDawn Raelette's show at the Commodore on November 5th.  Baby steps, baby steps, that is what the Old Dog is approaching.  I just don't need the 'walker' quite yet (which wouldn't work well on the beach)............ "Beach Becky..........Beach" (for those who remember where that came from).

OD

Ha, ha -- and now rapid fire, fill up with melodic line with syllables is becoming popular!! 

OD, if it makes you feel any better. I have been trying to contact Pam for about three months and have not heard back from her either. It is this way every year. I will get on it next week and see what I can find out.
The thing about the "island" down there is they are always last minute. When the season ends around Labor day, a lot of them leave town and do other things. Pam is a HUGE Alabama Crimson Tide fan and probably has been going to games. They don't work every day because there is not enough business. It starts picking up after Nov. when the Snowbirds come from the north to visit through the winter. 
My friends Larry and Beckett have been trying to make their arrangements, RiDawn has called and nobody has had much success. I was by there two weeks ago and it is still there with VACANCIES sign out front, but it is usually kind of hard this time of year.

 M

KevMo,

That is true about the rapid fire lyrics; but they have to flow.  That was the problem with your earlier lyrics.  Some of them would flow well and some of them would not.  Your song lyrics flow much better these days.

OD

Comments on open mic....

Key here is respect, I think.  It is earned but at the same time should be given. I'm going to assume that the songs there are "finished" and whether I agree or not, I need to respect the artist and treat it as such. Perhaps they're simply sharing the songs and are not even wanting or needing critique. Comments should be encouraging (I feel I'm preaching to the choir...lol) unless one has that relationship (there's that word) that allows for critical honesty, and, like Phil mentioned, kept to a private conversation. 

I haven't said anything everyone doesn't already know, but I think it bears repeating now and again. I think no matter what, or who, we all need a filter installed between our brain and mouth, in spite of our best intentions.   

I think there is a large element of "look at me, ma!" on open mike, and I'm including myself.  I always post up what I consider finished product, and I judge my success by the number of reviews I get. If I want peer to peer reviews on a work in progress, I go over to TAXI and their peer to peer board, which is very active (you don't have to be a member to participate). I am very active on open mike, in that I comment on a lot of songs. If I don't care for a tune, I don't comment at all. My pet peeve over there is people who post up their music -- some of them very long term members -- who never EVER comment on other people's work. Just like in the real world, as opposed to this cyber one, I notice people who only want to be listened to, and eventually ignore them. Why should I pay any attention to you if you can't take the time to pay attention to me?

On another topic, I want to say I enjoyed my time on JPF. Met a bunch of real nice people there.. I actually met Marc on that site, and he invited me to SongRamp. That was shortly after I called the owner of the JPF "arrogant" in a public post, and he decided I needed a "vacation" from "his" site. So he threw me off the site. At least he was paying attention to me . . .     Ott

To be blunt, the open mic as described here is pretty much a waste of time in my opinion.  If it is NOT for folks to put up songs and get constructive feedback, then what is it for?   To just listen to music?  If it is just for music listening, then I would rather go to youtube or pop in a CD and listen to the Counting Crows, the Lumineers, head and the heart, or catch up on the latest country songs from artists I like.  

Yes, there are some fine songs at the open mic, but you have to wade through a lot to get to it.  I don't mind wading, though, if each person wants meaningful feedback.  

On the bright side, this forum is always full of great info and good chatter.

Ott, I had forgotten about that. It was part of my "OTT recruitment days." Like college coaches, I really just puruse the other sites to steal their members and recruit them to our teams. LOL!

Most all songwriting sites are the "Look at me" sites and the majority are from "Valitdators", those that just want to be told how good they are. They don't really want to hear any critism at all. And I frankly understand that too. we all need a pat on the back,and positive reinforcement. I've never really had any problems with that.

It has always been my intention that there would be places to do that and then places to go "deeper" for the real constructive critism. I had always wanted a thread where people could come and actually TALK TO EACH OTHER instead of AT each other.

Then the key as I see it, is the fact that we can gather here and someone like Phil can bring up some popular songs and understand some ways that they got "up there." Then, if you take those elements and put them into your own writing, networking, recording, it all adds up to get a bigger picture of the industry.

I'll confess that I don't go to any open mics unless I am asked. I have to do that on an almost daily and nightly basis, listen to songs and writers and for the most part they really just reinforce my contention that too many people are POSTING things and not LISTENING TO ANYTHING. 

Ott, you are 100% right. People want SOMEONE TO LISTEN TO THEM, but invest NO TIME TO HELP SOMEONE ELSE.

That is the whole reason I wanted these threads from the beginning. And am very thankful to the Ramp for allowing us to do so. And why almost without exception,people who tune in here, continue along, meet others and participate, find their songs better, Their ride smoother, and the overall journey more fun.

MAB 

RE : Open  Mic.

This  forum is to show off your wares and to encourage other folk  to do like wise .

To allow critiques in open mic can lead to   folk being scared off.

As you all probably  know by  now, even the best of intentions ,  when typed , can  come across in way that was not intended

That is why we encourage critiques to be done privately

John

How do you go about "encouraging" that?  When I go to the open mic, I don't see any intro/dialog about that anywhere.

Well.  You could  just  do it anyway  now that  you   know .

There used to be a script on the old site..   If we dont have one  on this Ill get  Ed  to put one  up..

Of course you  could mosey over to the community  improvement forum > observations , bugs , issues,    and  post  your comment there..

Open Mic - the most talked about feature of SongRamp!

Well, let me dive in here for just a moment.  First, JPF - that's where I started, too - is a very cool site, for what it's designed for.  I met many "Folks" over there and was introduced to the Ramp by Graham Hendersen (RIP).  I've not been over there for years, but am pleased to learn that it's still viable!

Now, about comments in OM - I do take a bit of offense at the statement about "waste of time."  It's all about your goals, right?  Over the years, we've logged over 25,000 songs into OM.  Surely, someone liked it, no?  But, has it ever been the place for jagged-edged, straight to the soul critiques?  Nope.  Nor is that the intention.  Coaching, like child-rearing, is a dlecate art.  But all the best coaches will tell you:

Criticise in private and praise in public.

Criticising folks in front of others can be taken as a lack of respect and a desire to have power "over" them. If you criticise in front of others, some folks will "lose face," making it very difficult for them to want to lay themselves bare for the next person. This is basic respect you owe your people.

Now, some folks want it straight from the shoulder.  That's why we have a private email system here.  It's also why people pay good money to proven experts for critique services.  Afterall, if you don't have a few cuts, what qualifies you to do more than offer encouraging guidance, as opposed to critique?

We have always been a site that encourages - no, DEMANDS - respectful treatment of our fellow members.  That's what makes us what we are - a Community for Songwriters.  Hell, most of our members are Free Members - we even give them a voice, too, and pay attention to their likes, dislikes and desires.  On the other hand, I have personally BANNED long-term, active PAYING members for being A$$holes. 

But, that's just the kind of folks we are...

Good point about there not being anything specifically on the OM Page about our desired approach (I've fixed that).  There is, however, pretty clear language in the Terms of Service, which every member - Free or Paid - has made a positive affirmation to have read and agreed to:

Member/User Conduct: Members and users are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that is constructive and respectful of others at all times. Additionally, we would hope that each member/user would do their best to facilitate a culture of collaboration and positive reinforcement, so that we can all share our passion for music while realizing our personal ambitions, and developing friendships.

That pretty much sums it all up, right?

Ott has made an excellent point here about participation, or the lack thereof.  I can personally attest to the fact that it just isn't happening as I wish it would.  I, myself, am guilty.  I've been so caught up in the redesign and launch (will it ever freakin' end?) that I haven't been as active as I once was.  Hopefully, that will change soon.  I hope that other "old timers" are also only in a temporary lull, brought on by that thing we call "life."  Time will tell.

The great news is, we are getting new members, every day - and most are posting songs to Open Mic.

I intend to treat them nice - just as folks did me, back when I finally got the nerve to stand and deliver.

Have a nice night!

Eddie

This is personal and not a statement on behalf of songramp.

I have been a member (and presumably still am) of JPF and several others  ...I  stopped going to them because of the lack  of interaction.

Tunesmith was quite active  and I enjoyed it   but  too much harsh criticism  from  too few  experts. Didnt worry  me  but  lots of  folk came and went  quite quickly. In the end I had to decide where to best  spend  my  time

The best of  "others"  was Taxi but the absolute best  for  social interaction  and  encouragement was  Songwriterforums  hosted by Wayland Patton.

Then  there  is Songramp.

I joined, unknowingly, in its early  days  and when Songwriterforums  closed   I   (and several others as it turned out ) moved across here  permanently.  Over the course of time Life has got in the way of  active participation . Thats the way  of things.

That we had to change platforms also  helped folk to decide where their priorities  lay  and so some  members of longstanding  fell away  or  chanaged their member  and level  of activity . Thats also is the  way of things

Its the nature of things that  people come, stay a while  and  move on  or simply  become  passive  members who read  but  dont get (too)  involved .

What  is not needed is discouragement  (in Open MIc ) by  giving public harsh  criticism .

What is needed is ENCOURAGEMENT  and a feeling of belonging. INCLUSION.

What I would like to see is that  Members of this Forum  be active elsewhere  on Songramp.

Some one mentioned the  loss of Peer to peer  forum.  How many folk  would like that reinstated and would actually  use it ?

Ok   "Honey do"  is on the warpath .. More later

hey ..i have no idea where to pick up on yalls conversation...so I will just say hey and thank you Marc and  Phil for inviting me here !  I have been off of here for a while...for no reason other than i just flat out went to an island  3 years ago and rode little red buses everywhere and ate banannas i got from men with machetties (that walked behind me and made me look back alot ) and said what ?huh ? and i dont understand alot , now that I am back in the US ...(and let me tell you its great to be back ) i am back into the music scene !  hope yall all are doing great !

and Marc...the crazy man has been away for 2  years !  I got permission to shoot him  from the police so he kinda backed off : )

WELCOME back   . its friendly  around here ..and if not we have site police to deal with it  Pronto.  ( checks  the load in the .45 magnum )  

John..i didnt run into the crazy guy  on this site..everyone on here had always been very courteous...he may be lurking though ..he  answers by the name " Thor " ..haa