MAB Q&A

You forgot one thing OD. Gerald will be able to quit asking "What does it take to get people to write with me?" People WILL be wanting to write with him. Because his writing ability will change and he will go back with some much stronger songs that hit the targets a lot tighter.

You are a really goofy card. Thanks for all that. We all love you best!

MAB 

Gentlemen!!  How am I suppose to concentrate on writing something helpful here when all I can do is laugh so hard I'm crying and can't see the screen!!!  LOLOLOLOLOL!!!  You are killing me!  

Pay no attention to those men who should be behind the curtain!

M 

Hi All

Just been putting down some words to a song idea, which I have not done for so long.  Things are levelling out now so I am beginning to see the wood from the trees.  I hope to get involved with collaboration more from now on.

Had everything set up and the guitar out of the case but decided to fix the slate that had slipped down.  Got up the ladder and pushed the slate up and felt that feeling you get when you slide your finger against an extremely sharp piece of glass!  Didn't pay much attention as it was a slate.  Got it into place and climbed down to see blood all over my hand.   But it wasn't too bad really though I won't be playing the guitar for a few days!!  Best laid plans.

Hope you've all had a good weekend.

Cheers

Nod

MAB writes (quote):

You forgot one thing OD. Gerald will be able to quit asking "What does it take to get people to write with me?" People WILL be wanting to write with him. Because his writing ability will change and he will go back with some much stronger songs that hit the targets a lot tighter.

MAB,  while I totally agree with your statement,  I'd like to point something out to Gerald, so he doesn't get the impression with one Tour he will walk away writing songs so good, everyone at home will want to write with him.  That may happen but in my experience it takes awhile for someone to soak up all the information and apply it to their writing. 

Of course after a first Tour,  everyone will go home and begin writing much better songs; because we now have someone who points out our bad habits and offers suggestions to make our writing better and stronger.  However, breaking bad habits that we didn't even know we had, may take time, many songs, and many light bulbs going off in our head before it becomes natural and we finally get it.

Just my opinion, but I think the most important lesson of our first Tour is sitting down with you, one on one, and having you totally focus on our journey and our level of writing.  With your help we learn what we are doing wrong that is keeping us from doing things right.  Once we hit the "Reality Wall" and become aware of what makes for a strong song, can we correct our bad habits that define us as an amateur writer by the seasoned writers and especially the Pro writers like yourself.  

To me, this is the most important lesson and the most valuable step to be gained by our first Tour with you.  It strips us of our ego and false opinions of our songwriting ability we gained from listening to our family and friends.  I don't believe most of us will walk away from only one Tour a really good writer yet, everyone back home will immediately want to write with;  but it will give us the tools and direction of becoming a much better writer 'in time' , everyone back home will want to write with.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule; but for most of us it takes some time to make sense of it all.  I just didn't want for Gerald to think it was easy and one Tour would make him a really good writer.  It will give him the information he needs to become a really good writer if he chooses to.  At that point it's up to him whether he is willing to put the work into it to get there. (IMHO).

It's a long journey but a short trip when you look back on it.

OD

Just getting out of the living room....like you say we need to do.....lol

MAB- DMSO  is wonderful for sore hands..read about it and the pros and cons ...took my stiging aching pain away in about 5 secs

No worries, OD you didn't give me the wrong impression at all. I'm quite expecting a lot of work. I'm also expecting MAB to give me the truth. I get the feeling its gonna hurt a bit.

Nod, I'm somewhat of an expert in shedding blood and various hand injuries keeping one from playing. I feel your pain. Hope you heal quickly.

GOOOOOOODDDDD MOOOOORRRRNNNNIINNGGGGG SOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGGGRAAAAAAAMMMMMMPPPPPP!!!!!!!!

OD, I can't believe you would say that about Gerald not being an entirely new writer and everyone wanting to write with him, ONE TIME after meeting with me!!!! Why, after your first time, you had increased your following among women from 97 year olds all the way up to the 98 and 99 year olds!!! You became the HOTTEST MAN AROUND THE RETIREMENT HOME!!!! 

Look, I don't mean he is suddenly going to be Gary Burr, but he will be LOOKING at music differently. You have to remember one of his first posts. Talking about having been asked to custom write songs for his town. He also talked about being around the area, hosting writers nights, etc, but not getting anyone to want to writing with him. My thoughts are that the reason probably is that what he has now is an older sounding type of song. So he is going to have to update the way he looks at music. And it is not always painful.

With you, yourself, you claimed to have a "great dislike for today's music." And I agree, there is MUCH about today's music I don't care for. The entire 'Rap invasion" is something I could totally do without in life, much less country. but it is here, with it's rapid fire delivery, inane Dr. Seuss Rhymes, boring redundant drum loops and insestantly boring messages.  I could have said "That's it, if that is where music is going I'M DONE!!!!" 

But ALL country music or music in general, is not going to do that. A lot will, but not all. And I don't have to like it, listen to it or certainly not participate in it. I don't particularly care for music that sounds written by five year olds. So I just don't do that. I focus on other things.

The same thing happened with you. When you came to me, we talked about a lot of things then I sat you down and made you watch some country videos. You decided there was music you actually liked. After that we found different avenues,and you got some music happening that was really cool. Remember, one of your songs stopped a hooker from leaving a show in backwoods Alabama. 

And that is what we do. My thoughts are that the first tour with Gerald will be looking at his music in a different way. He will look at aspects he thought has been right and realize that it is very average. And that is the main thing that people always have to first understand. How difficult it is to come up with the right approach, the right twist, and how common most ideas and songs are.

I had a 68 year old guy come to me once. He handed me a sheet of paper with 168 song titles on it. There were three collumns of these things. I looked it over for about two minutes, didn't say a word. Then I handed it back to him and said "Okay, now show me ONE title on here that is NOT NEGATIVE!". He looked at it and suddenly his eyes got the size of saucers. EVERY SINGLE ONE WAS ABOUT BEING DUMPED, BROKEN HEARTS, PAIN, SUFFERING, ANGER, BITTERNESS, ANGST, CRYING, WRIST SLITTING. Every single ONE. He never realized it. And when we went through his catalogue, yep, every single song. 
When we went out that night, he heard an entire writers night with about 98% of the songs and writers doing the exact same thing. He was doing three days with me and came back the second day like the light bulb had come on.He had to start looking at all his music totally differently. He never wrote another negative song.

And you want to know what happened? This year I got a royalty check from ASCAP for about $200. There was no listing of where it came from. I still get a little money from that Shelby Lynne movie that gets rented and bought over and over,mostly overseas. And through other little cuts and things, you recieve a little bit here and there. Welcome to the music business. But they usually won't issue checks for under $50. I got another accounting later and it had this radio airplay in SWEDEN. It turns out that that guy, who is probably 72 or 73 now, is PERFORMING. He is doing things all over Europe and Sweden. He even got radio airplay in Sweden! And the song is not some depression laden stuff. It is called COMMON GROUND and about an  older guy and younger guy who dissagree on the state of country music, but can find common ground in things they like.

So OD, maybe you need to get out your Liederhosen, and mountain climbing gear and head to the MOUNTAINS of Sweden!!!!!

The point, is that what I do, is go through multiple songs, and attempt to show how you can update your understanding of all this. Tonight I am hosting the "RISING STAR' competition at 360 BURGER. There will be about 20 people trying to compete for the $100. And I will assure you they will all be various shades of hugely mediocre. I will also bet you that over half of them won't listen to ONE WORD their contemporaries are saying. They will sit with their heads bowed over their phones, texting, playing games, and not paying attention to a damn thing! Those very same people will be the ones who have moved home in 6 months to a year, realizing that Nashville doesn't give a crap about them, and they don't need to let the doorknob hit them in the butt on the way out of town.

Do you know what separates great writers from everyone else?

Great writers LISTEN.

They listen to everything. They listen to what other people write, because most people suck and they don't want to do that. They listen to all the average rhymes, the inane concepts, the titles that just lay there, the stuctures that are laughable, they droning on four and five verse songs that say NOTHING at all.
They listen to what people say in general conversation and find a way to say that in a song that other people hear and go "I have never thought of it like that before!"
They listen to the current market enough to not be swayed by trends. They know that when certain trends start arriving, they are going to abandon any semblance of that and move to something else because if they are hearing it on radio, members of the industry have been listening to it for months and are sick to death of it. So they "shift at the line of scrimmage."

They listen to their inner voice,and are able to guide what they write past the average and find the twist or turn that is going to bring a special life to their songs, that other people hear and say "I want THAT!"

They attract the younger, hipper artists that may be able to pull off the big deal, because they have a style of writing that those artists can't do themselves. They have ways to engage their audiences and industry people that rises above all the mediocrity.

They find a way to make the ordinary EXTRODINARY!!!!
Most writers DON'T DO ANY OF THAT. That is what separates the average from the exceptional.

So when I see a lot of people NOT LISTENING, I know where they are going to end up. And I don't waste my time on them.  You are judged 85% of your career OFF THE PLAYING FIELD. Away from writing, peforming, recording. How you deal with others, how you listen. How well you understand the politics of the game. After tonight there will be a whole bunch of people who will set their course to fail in this town. You watch em come and watch em go.

The only thing about Nashville that never changes is that most people GO.

Gerald will at least come to understand that on the first day. How he processes it and moves forward is a different deal. But he has already shown common sense by coming here and participating. Going to give him a big leg up wouldn't you say? 

MAB 

Gerald,

It will probably hurt less than you think because you are already doing some basic study before you get here. I am pretty sure you will already be looking at music differently before you get here. That is the benefit of being involved in this site. I try to explain what goes on "behind the scenes" before hand but there is nothing quite like being here.

My favorite example was one of our older members from Canada, Dean, or Deaner. he had been involved for quite a while and we had gotten to know him by the time he and his wife showed up at the Frank Brown festival for the big Ramper time in 2009. Before they came down there, they spent a couple days here.
Dean had this one song, I'm drinking Double, she's acting Single" that he was very proud of. I had heard that combination used thousands of times since the 70's but wanted him to see it.

Over the weekend, we went out to several places and he heard the same title done about three or four times. The last one was at a songwriters party, and he had to get up and play following another guy who had the same title. He never forgot that experience.

That is what most of this is. If you are playing team sports and everyone is about the same, you don't think too much about it. You just play. Then when you get into bigger leagues, more orginized competition, stronger and bigger people, you suddenly realize there is a lot more to it. Most people quit.

In songwriting it is the same thing. When you just write for yourself you have no constraints, not rules, no limits. But when you start trying to get around other people, performing songs, trying to get and keep attention, trying to get co-writers, publishers, recording, etc. you suddenly realize there is a LOT of things to it. Especially when you around both VERY AMATEUR WRITERS AND VERY GOOD PROFESSIONAL WRITERS. 

No, every one is not going to turn into a magically great writer. Most will fade out, and do it as a hobby. But if you see it from a different perspective it starts to come into focus and give your own music some different ways of looking at it. Suddenly you write tighter. You skip the average rhyme. You reject titles that before you would have jumped into. The details become clearer.The songs get shorter but you say MORE.

That is what we do here in TWANG TOWN. Looking forward to meeting you.

MAB 

the first  part  could have almost been written about  me but after a few minutes with mab ,  I basically got the message, the light bulb went off and I went no further  with what I had written . I put my song book  down  and  We went on to write 1 song then and later another 2 then  a cowrite with Christine Parri..  all  different and  positively  up beat  and more "modern".

Gerald has nothing to lose  by touring with MAB  and everything to gain.

Here is one https://www.songramp.net/music/496/beautiful-simplicity/

John

"the light bulb went off and I went no further  with what I had written"....

That might be the part that hurts a little because I actually like some of what I've written. But I reckon I've got a pretty bright future for all the lightbulbs moments I've had lately....

I enjoyed your song John. Can't put my finger on it yet, but you had something in it that I want to get to. Some connection I'm missing....someone could tell me, but if I can't learn it for myself, its pointless. Maybe I'm just over thinking this whole thing. Could be as simple as applied physics....

MAB,

I stand corrected by the way I expressed that statement.  Your post was an excellant description of what I learned from your Tour,
and what everyone else will learn by taking your Tour.  I spoke about Gerald when I should have mentioned it was me, I was thinking
about while writing that post.  I truly did learn a lot and it changed my view about the songs I wrote and how I wrote them; however
I was slow to apply what I had learned into my writing when I got home.  Oh,  you had taught me well and raised my awareness
of how to write better songs; it was just that it took awhile before I broke my bad habits and felt capable of writing with others.  
That was just me and my insecurities,  I should not have assumed Gerald would face the same situation as I did. 

Gerald already has an advantage before he meets with you because of reading along on this Forum.  No doubt his view on writing
songs has already changed just by reading your posts on the Ramp.  Good for him and I hope he makes the trip to Nashville
because; like you say; there is nothing like a Tour and a one-on-one with you.

Gerald, you made the Old Dog chuckle with your statement you have a bright future ahead with all of the light bulbs going off.
That was good. 

By the way, cute little tune you have on open mic about our discussion the other night.

OD

Marc...is there and advantage to go  with SESAC over BMI  if you are a writer and performer ?

Gerald, I just looked at some of your songs again. I actually listened to them earlier, but had forgotten what they were about. Go back and listen to John's song again and you can "see" the story unfold. Two examples are; In V1, she wasn't just smiling, she was smiling in a baseball cap and genes. She wasn't just being lazy, she was eating Chinese take out. In V2, she didn't just smile, she smilled with her 2 teeth. Then go look at your songs and see if you can "see" the story.

phil g.

Hey folks, just finishing the first of my day tours with three regular clients from Upstate New York. They come down once a year to work with me, play some shows. Played my 360 show Saturday, the Bluebird last night, the Commodore tonight with Allen Shervelle, and 360 tomorrow night with Allen. 

Gerald, this is how the tour works. I was at the Cracker Barrel resturant today waiting to meet them. All of a sudden  at the door was WOOD NEWTON, my co-writer of Too Much Blood, and a Grammy Award winning writer and producer. He and his wife just happen to come in on the way to the store. I had them sit down and waited on the guys. They came in a few minutes and we all sat down and talked. They got to ask Wood questions and he told stories and about his other love,golf. Wood is a HUGE GOLFER and more deals go down on the golf course than any pitch meetings. 

Turns out two of the guys are co-owners in a GOLF COURSE in upstate New York. The bottom line is that next year, Wood,  myself and another writer will be going to New York to do shows, a workshop and I will be doing private appointments. Wood and the other golfer will be playing golf.

And those guys will now know and probably be writing with Wood and some other writers when they come to town.

 THAT IS WHY IT IS A 'TOUR'. Never know where it is going.

Heather, 

So we have the "SESAC over ASCAP or BMI thing huh? My standard answer is "When you go over there, be careful of the people coming OUT of that building going over to the other two. Don't want to get trampled.
I have friends at all three, Tim Fink at SESAC. I know writers there that love them, and writers that hate them. All three. None of them are perfect and mostly having to figure out how to COLLECT MONEY on something no one wants to PAY FOR ANYMORE.

ASCAP has been suing venues until they completely quit live music. BMI has been involved in lawsuits with the major television and movie companies and not being able to get paid, and fighting constantly with SPOTIFY AND PANDORA who collect billions in advertising revenue and pay tens of cents in royalties. SESAC is trying to find their way as well, but I think all of them will probably be gone in ten years because I don't think songs will have moneytary value. 

So if you find someone you like, great. Have meetings with all of them, go to the parties and EXPECT NOTHING FROM ANYONE. Because you probably won't get it.

MAB 

Well, let's see who I irritate this time. OD: "You'll save money if you decide to continue writing what you want and how you want, play your songs for family and friends in your local community, quit entering contests with mediocre songs that charge a fee with no results (other than a pat on the back) . . . well, OD, 1) Why shouldn't I write what I want and how I want? Am I supposed to write what YOU want? I'm trying to write commecial songs; I don't understand this statement. 2) Even the most successful of artists probably played their tunes for family and friends before they got famous. I don't understand this either. Because I am not yet successful, I mark myself as an amateur because I play my music for friends and family? How do you mean this? 3) "Quit entering contests with mediocre songs . . " We've beaten this dead horse several times on this forum. Once again, do I prove I'm a "professional" by NOT entering any contests? And how do you know the songs -- especially the ones that won top honors -- are mediocre? Are you spending a lot of time checking these song contest sites out and listening to the songs, so you know in fact they are all mediocre? Lately, Marc has been telling us that there are a whole lot of mediocre songs played in Nashville as well.  Also, you only get a "pat on the back" if you win an award of some kind, and that happens only to about 10% of the songs. 

I've only started. I have frankly discovered over the last few years that I really don't care for most country songs, just like Marc doesn't care for pop. I prefer pop, dance, adult contemporary. So, having said that, I'm going to comment on one country song that was tremendously successful, a song that I don't like at all.  "I Drive Your Truck".  It does everything Marc says a song should do. Check out these verses: "89 cents in the ashtray/half empty bottle of Gatorade rolling in the floorboard/dirty Braves cap on the dash/dog tags hanging in the rear view/Old Skoal can cowboy boots and a Go Army shirt . . .

Hits image after image, paints a picture, not to mention squeezing in 4 commercial images in the lyrics. Trouble is I don't like any of the images -- "Gatorade, dirty Braves cap, Old Skoal, Go Army" . Then, we have "momma asked me this morning/if I'd been by your grave/but that flag and stone ain't where I feel you anyway" . . . So the writer has now squeezed in a grieving mother, death (the grave and the stone) and patriotism (the flag).

And of course the chorus includes that ubiquitous truck barreling down another country road. This song is wonderfully constructed, but you cannot escape the fact that it is being sung to a dead kid. To me, it is mawkish, overly sentimental, hackneyed, and manipulative.What young kid would want to hear this song more than once? It's depressing!  About three to four months ago, I was reading a music review column in the Wall Street Journal, and one of the questions asked was why country was not more mainstream. I regret I don't recall the name of the columnist, but the answer he got was this: "to be more successful, country has got to stop putting out pap like "I Drive Your Truck". That's not a misquote. "Pap" is the word that was used.

So where does that put the Nashville "high bar"? Not any higher than the "bars" in Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, etc. Different strokes for different folks. "I Drive Your Truck" may be a "nashville high bar" tune, but outside of country? Not so much. I would be an abject failure at writing a country song. I just don't work well with that format. That does not mean that I -- or anyone else outside of Nahville -- doesn't have talent. It means I have no talent for writing country songs. I guess a major point I have here is not to pick a song that is popular in one genre as your gold standard to shoot for. Your talents may lie in a different genre.

Ott

Ott Ol Buddy,

I love how you have a cocktail or two and get on the Old Dog for making a post, while I was having a beer or two.

I never claimed to know what I was talking about Brother,  in fact,  I think I have said many times I 'don't' know what I'm talking about.

OD

What about wine?  Any one drinking wine and posting?

thanks Marc..well said !

I would, but I've never really cared for wine. All other drinking and posting seems to be well in hand

I used to drink scotch while wrting and posting.  That's how I came up with my future hit "Loving You Makes Me Feel Like a Necrophiliac." 

I quit drinking...I still make stupid posts...

Just sayin'

Awesome tune, Eddie. Personally I like your "Lovin You Blue, Blues" just a little better.