Marc-Alan  Barnette

Hello guys,

No  Phil, you don't have to worry about me and any gambling casinos. I actually "CAN'T STAND CASINOS!" The noise, the constant movement,l and all the things going on give me a kind of panic vertigo. Whenever we go, (because Tina. Tommy and Susie, Larry and Beckett, and other travel friends LOVE THEM) I will be found with a book or walking around to get away from the noise. 

We were trying to kill time Friday night between the ending of shows and the time for the massive guitar pull that started after midnight. Tina loves to play Blackjack we had two hours to kill so we went. Biloxi is over the bridge from Ocean Springs, about two miles away. So we went. I sat at the table and Tina told me what to do. it made me really uneasy, just kind of throwing money away. I don't see how people can do it. Tina is pretty good and wins more than she loses, but knows how to do it just for fun. Has a certain amount and that is it once that is gone.


We played for about two hours and managed to win a little bit. I was never so ready to end up and leave. There are so many cameras, and people standing around watching every move you make, you feel like you are going to make some mistake or some wrong hand gesture and they are going to throw you in jail for some violation of some obscure rules. It's all very disconcerting. But Tina loves it and she has done so much to get me to this trip, I needed to do something she liked. So we did. But I was pretty glad to get out of there. Casinos are JUST NOT MY THING AT ALL!


So don't worry about me getting sucked into the gambling thing. I am involved in another, larger, continuous gamble.


It's called THE ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS. You can lose money at that all the time. Just put your money in the demo slot machine and I can assure you it will come up empty more times than you ever hit. And when you hit, if you are lucky, you just might break even on your previous gambling debts from other demos. And then of course, that will just get you wanting to do more demos..write more songs, play more gigs....yeah,  you'll be hooked bad! 

There's no more addictive substance than music. 
I always thought I should start "MUSICAHOLIC'S ANNONOMYS" chapter. Could start very young with these 12-15 year olds, have family couciling with their MOMANGERS AND DADINGERS, rapid response teams picketing outside of writers rooms, studios, ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, have big protest marches with signs against SPOTIFY, PANDORA, and then INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS, go to Congress and get damages from these companies for financial ruin of music related injuries, get people on class action lawsuits for guitar and keyboard, recording equipment, PRO TOOLS, microphone companies, effects companies, and bring ALL OF THEM DOWN for the destruction of human existance. Then I could win BILLIONS in my class action lawsuit and finally achieve my biggest goal.
Stamping out all drummers in the world!!!

Then I would turn my sights on DANCERS. I could get them for dental damage and blocking my vision. I could shut them down and get billions from DANCING WITH THE STARS, and put them out of business. THEN I could go to AMERICAN IDOL and the VOICE for damaging the youth of America.


Pretty soon I could be on the cover of TIME, NEWSWEEK and all the news sources as THE MAN WHO FINISHED OFF MUSIC in the world!!!!!


Man, I like this. Gotta go. I have some calls to lawyers I need to make!!!


MAB 


 

Gerald Wiebe

I suppose I'll be first.....


 


Hi everyone. My name is Gerald....and I'm a musician. It all started innocently enough, you know, one song, and it felt good. I wasn't affecting anyone, but one song led to two and before I realized what happened, I was writing songs and performing them for family and friends, and even strangers....I'm so ashamed to have had to watch people dance to my songs....they've even spend their hard earned dollar to listen to them.I think it pains me greatly, to know that I've been  instrumental in leading others down this path of destruction that is the pleasure of music. Thank you, MAB for this wonderful support group....

OD OldDog

Hello Gerald,  


Allow me to welcome you to the group.  My name is OD and I'm a "Musicaholic".   


Like you, I too started out using music to calm my nerves at first; until music took over and I was spending my time looking for
my next song, and stealing lines from my family and friends, as they spoke.


I have hawked my most valuable possesions to live in the streets long enough to buy a ticket to a show from the scalper dealing their merchandise on the street corner.


I once knew a fellow music junkie that climbed in the back of a police cruiser by choice (some say by mistake),  because he recognized the taxi was called to take him to a friends house for an intervention.


I have attended many songwriters AA meetings (Average Anonymous) and heard every excuse for not being allowed into the Nashville's inner circles.


My mentor and sponcer "The MAB" has spoken many times to help us all with our addiction.  He has even recited the groups prayer for us to follow that goes:


The Creativity Prayer:


God grant me the creativity
to re-write lines my co-writers will not change;
courage to fetch their coffee;
while they gain wisdom that I can 


OD


 


 


 

OD OldDog

So my good buddy and cousin's hubby just left and we shook hands on the deal.


We agreed on a price we are 'both' comfortable with, that will rid me of the remainder of my guitar/amp collection.


I gave him a very discounted price earlier that would give him a lot of room to make some money.  He called me back and wanted to come over and talk things over.  I knew at that point he was going to be like the American Pickers showing up, and I teased him about expecting a white van showing up.  


He gave me his song and dance about how much money he would have to invest, and how much time it may take for him to sell (or trade) everything to break even or realize a profit.  I then told him it came down to how much money I was willing to lose in order for him to make money, and at what price would be a win/win situation for both of us.  He offered a lower price, than my original discounted price, and I shouted out "damn" I should have known to give a higher retail price knowing you would come back with a lower price.  We haggled back and forth (just like in the TV show) before coming to an agreement in the middle that we were both happy with.  


I then told him I did not want his wife (my cousin Tammy) to see the two black eyes he left me with.  Of course I was only teasing and Steve  assured me he would rather walk away from the deal than to have any hard feelings.  The deal is done and I only have to wait until the end of the week to get my money.  Of course no deal is final until the seller has the check in his hands; but I feel this will happen and be over by the end of this week.  


So Philboy, the Old Dog will not be bringing a bass guitar to FB (which I would not have done anyway) as I am officially retired from my bass playing days and have moved on.  Please know that I am proud to have been considered one of the best bass players amongst the musicians in my community (while playing in bar bands);  but those days are over.  Also know I was not near as good as the studio bass players I have heard in Nashville, so giving it up was not a difficult choice.


All is well with the Old Dog.


OD


 


 


 


 

John Westwood


Hello guys,

No  Phil, you don't have to worry about me and any gambling casinos. I actually "CAN'T STAND CASINOS!" The noise, the constant movement.  *Snip*
We were trying to kill time Friday night


MAB 


 Ive been to a casino once in Alice Springs  back in  about 1990. I took $10  in 10c pieces and shared them with  Robyn.


 


Talk about BORING.........


The interesting part , if interesting  is the right word,  was the  looks on  the faces of people playing the  poker machines. Boredom, desperation, temprorary elation at winning a  few dollars..which kept them playing  longer only  to lose the lot . No social interaction that I saw..


Ive never went near the tables.. if indeed they had any...


At least with the table you have some control over how you  lose ... Poker machines .. Blech !!!


My  only  gambling vice is the weekly  donation to the lottery board  which  sends a part of the take   to charities


 J


 

John Westwood

Gerald Wiebe said...


Hi everyone. My name is Gerald....



Hi Gerald!  A warm  Australian welcome to the forum


John     <<< chest  bump >>>  we  dont do  many  hugs  over here

Phillip (phil g.) Grigg

Hey Gerald! Welcome to the family! You'll like it here at the farm. Pleanty of food (for thought) to go around, and we all share. Oh, and there really are only 3 chords. The others are just mutated variations of one of the 3 base chords.


OD, Actually, I know you at least used to play an upright base, but I though you had changed to a bass guitar? You don't really need a guitar at Frank Brown. You can just play drums on one of the bar stools for us! LOL! Seriously, I do hope you come down. PM Kevin and even Eddie Rhodes. I can't remember if he and his brother are getting a place or what, but I'm pretty sure they're comming down. AND, if you can't get anyone else to share a condo, you are always welcome to live at my place. If my back will behave, I'll even let you have the bedroom. HOWEVER, we will need to make beer arangements. LOL!


MAB, is one of the things you would like to do here is disect and discuss one of the current top 10 country songs? What made it? If so, can we discuss FGL's "Dirt" and Kenny Chesney's "American Kids"? Those are really the only 2 top songs I like that much. And on both, it's the lyrics that get my attention. The stories.


phil g.

Gerald Wiebe

Thanks John, I was kinda hoping for a hug but the "chest bump" was nice just the same....lol...


 


 

Marc-Alan  Barnette

Welcome back everyone! I'mmmm back!!!!

You guys are as twisted as I am in the humor department, which is why we all get along as well as we do! Love the AA stuff. That is about how I feel when it comes to a lot of the business of songwriting, but the actual doing it, I would never do anything else! It does mean a lot and I'll go into some details about the Mississippi trip in a bit. Just wanted to welcome our new brother here first.

Gerald, It is great to have you. How did you find out about us? What is your background and where are you located?What kinds of things would you like to talk about?  We are about discussing anything pertaining to the craft of writing here, as well as elements of the actual music industry. We speak more about Nashville than anywhere else because that is where I am based and where most people become engaged with at some point of a songwriter's journey. But we cover bases elsewhere and I interact with a lot of people year round from many different areas and country. We even have a few here from other countries who drop by from time to time.
You are among good friends and we are happy to discuss anything you would like. Feel free to chime in on anything and even if you bring up something we have talked about before, it is always good because we don't mind going at it again, it helps when people have been around for a while and find how their opinions have changed on subjects. So it is all good. Welcome.


Phil, we can discuss anything you want to. Like everything with me, you have to remember that I don't just sit around listening to current radio all the time, so if you have songs you like, mention them and I'll go listen to them. A lot of times I find it is something I heard the writers do some time before at Frank Brown or other festivals or events. So I might be a little slow on the initial uptake but tune in pretty quickly. About everything is availible for viewing on YOU TUBE, so I can check it out and bring you my perceptions of it. Like always it is an opinion but I'd like to think it is somewhat educated. You are welcome to go ahead and put your own comments on them as well.


What I generally don't care for is random lyrics posted up here with no music or context. Usually if someone has a new song they want input on, they can post a notice here and we can all go look at it. Or if there is a more "private discussion" going on, that can be approached as well. But anytime there is something that people have a genuine interest in dissecting, questioning, or something pertinate to a subject we have going on, it is always a great idea for dialogue.

OD, it will be great to have you down at Frank Brown. Was just through there yesterday and they are starting to gear up. I also look forward to having you here on the way down. Going to be a really great few days. RiDawn will be having her show, and I think we'll have a bunch of people around. Then down at the festival I am going to have some morning sit around sessions where we can share songs, talk about what is going on and just do a "RAMPBASH" at the BEACH! Will be fun!


John, the whole gambling thing has never made a lot of sense to me. I can understand how some people get into it. It is entertainment and of course, some people take it REALLY seriously. I just never have. It has not been one of my passions. I look at that money as something I could spend on another recording, a trip somewhere, an educational class, something that I would enjoy.


One of the things about my 'tours" of Nashville that I can compare it to is going to a casino. You spend money, go in, pull those levers on your songs to see if you get attention. but I like to give them something to go home with, which is other types of songs than they are used to writing. And it helps a lot of things overall. Your mental state, a feeling of accomplishment, and to see the town from  a different viewpoint than you might have seen before. I'd like to think it is a pretty cool thing. 

So give me a minute and I will go back through the 'real events" of the weekend. Had a pretty interesting time.


MAB 


 


 


 


 


 


 

Eddie Minyard

Well, MAB - I heard you cool ad on the Music Row Show last night!  I spoke with Heino this morning - we're going to try to do something together.  Please don't tell them them about "that issue" I've been dealing with - afterall, the work release program has done wonders for me.

Phillip (phil g.) Grigg

MAB, since I will be volunteering for the lunch service, probably every day, from 11:00 to 2:00pm, if you have any idea which day(s) you want to do your beach bash, I sure would like to ttend at least one. Just would need to not be working that day(s).


phil g.

Marc-Alan  Barnette

                                                  THE MISSISSIPPI SONGWRITER'S FESTIVAL

Well, it was a very good time in Ocean Springs Mississippi this weekend. My reason for going over was to practice what I preach in "getting out of the living room." While we get so many people that come to Nashville continuously, I believe there are untold people "out there" that are interested in the craft and art of songwriting and need help in gathering direction in their musical journey. And getting to the festivals are a way to see and meet professional writers doing what they love to do. In addition, the newer and up coming writers and artists tend to gravitate to them, so it is easy to meet people. They are often standing right next to you.
But even more so than that, there is a feeling of "supporting something larger than ourselves. The festivals are expensive to put on and usually just a few volunteers work tirelessly to help pull together something that they love and don't get to do that often. It is really putting your money and effort where your mouth is. So supporting them goes a long way to having them support you.

I had been hearing about the festival for a couple of years. Indeed, once I got there, I realized that a couple of the founding board members had approached me years ago at the Silver Moon, in Perdido Key and asked if I would be interested in doing it if they could get it running. I said yes, but never heard from them. And most of these festivals can be difficult to contact, just due to the logistics of putting things together. Everyone is volunteering, so getting hit writer confirmation, organizing the events, venues. advertisers, lodging,etc. is a daunting task. So a lot of times you just have to go on faith and show up. That is what Tina and I did.


Fortunately, Tina had a lot of built up frequent flyer and hotel points from her dealings with Diebold, so we were able to fly to Pensecola, get a rental car and drive the hour and a half over. Was an incredibly easy trip. And I got to see parts of the country I haven't seen before as I rarely go much past Mobile on my trips to the Coast. The additional lure of the Casinos, over the bridge in Biloxi were extra incentive for her.

But I had NO expectations. I was hoping that some of my friends, who I know from Nashville and Frank Brown, might put in a good word for me and I might get to do a song or two on one of the shows. Well, I kind of exceeded that. The first night, at the "kick off" party, I knew a bunch of the people there, including my good redneck buddy, TOMMY BARNES (Indian Outlaw) and Jim Femino (Just Got started Loving You), who were talking about me to any orginizer who would listen. And they did start asking. But I figured I would pick my spots. Just wanted to relax a bit first. And I wanted to SEE some of the other shows while there. A lot of great writers I don't always get a chance to see.


To make a long story short, the next day when I dropped by the central hotel (The artists and festival staff all stay at one hotel, which is also a golf and country club. Elvis used to stay there in the 50's and 60's so there are Elvis themed stuff all over the place) and immidiately was asked if I wanted to play. The guy doing the logistics, was the guy who approached me all those years ago at the Silver Moon. I thought he was just going to put me in a couple of short slots. They have some people playing two songs in between the main shows. but no, he was putting me in full sets. He just didn't realize it yet. LOL!

The town of OCEAN SPRINGS is a very small, cute village about five miles from the casinos and the beach. It is really sweet looking with little shops and resturants all over. Looks like a real boutique community. The seven venues of the festival (including a couple in Pascagoula,which is 20 miles away) were all very close, so it made it easy to get around and see many shows. And most people did. Wandering in and out of the venues, that were all free to the public. I liked that part.


My first show was at Picasso's, a very nice itialian resturant with a very neat little courtyard. It was very very good food, and the artists were interesting. Starting with a 13 year old girl, who I would meet her momanger and her and talk to her a good deal over the next couple of days. Some local and regional acts and then some of the Nashville big dogs. I was put in with a girl from Gulf Shores that I have met at Frank Brown, and a guy out of New Orleans.


This is when it gets fun.  When nobody knows you, they don't really know what to expect and if you are not one of the hit writers, they think you are just some other old guy trying to play his hobby. Writers and artists at these thing break down into a few catagories. The new and young ones coming up trying to play their first 'real gigs", outside of talent contests, open mics, the odd party or karaoke night. There are older people who have been around but have other careers. They take time off for these like vacations. There are local and regional people who play fairly regularly, usually cover giggers. Then there are some pretty decent performers who don't really have any songs,a few "fraternity type" guys and girls who bring in some of their very drunk friends anywhere they play, and then the "big dog" writers, who have been doing this for years. With most of them, are the new and upcoming artists and writers they are working with. Every hit writer has some younger person they are bringing along. That is where the next cuts come from.

On my first round,was the young 20 year old girl and the older 40ish guy, and I don't think they knew what hit them. I came out full bore and since I was the first one, it kind of shocked them that I kind of knew what I was doing. With each song, they kind of struggled to find what to follow with. I love doing that. I am teaching as I go, and showing them that they need to have a lot of material and that their songs need to stand up to the pros are all part of the learning curve. It has happened to me on tons of occassions where you are put in a show with someone that doesn't look the part. Then just blows you off the stage. It is indeed eye opening, especially when they rip out songs you knew but didn't realize they wrote them.
The show, went very well, with even the people in the back of the room, who were there just to eat, paying a lot of attention. Is a lot of fun watching a crowd turn around wondering "what is that?" Gets pretty fun. They are used to having writer/artists as background music, and I don't really do that well.


Toward the end of the set, I noticed my buddies Tommy Barnes and Steve Leslie, who are great writers, standing behind the stage waiting for their turn. It is fun to play for your friends who also don't get to see you very often. Since I was doing a workshop with Steve the next day, I was glad to show off a bit for him too. Sorry, but I do like to do that.


Afterword, the Momanger and the 13 year old approached me and we had a nice discussion. They are working a bit with Pam Tillis, and are talking about coming to Nashville to do one of my tours. Reaching out does work.


We were able to catch a couple of other shows right around the same areas, Tommy and Steve (Who is VERY JAMES TAYLORISH!) my friend Karen Reynolds, who a week ago was in a hospital at death's door and had to perform with an oxygen tank.

One of the big features of this festival is an orginized late night guitar pull at the hotel. And while they have special badges (with a star on it) for the ones invited to the pull, about everyone seems to show up. That is why we killed time going to the EVIL GOLDEN NUGGET to play black jack. Killing time. 
Again, the guitar pull was pretty funny in that very few there knew me. There were about thirty five people in this round and it took a while to get around to me. then I whacked them with THING FOR YOU, my big vocal explosion I wrote with Jimbeau, and that woke them up. They told me the next day they were hearing that one down at the casinos in Biloxi. LOL! But the problem with that many people is it takes forever to get back around with so many people playing songs. So I only did the one. Left after a while and when we got back to the hotel found out it was THREE OCKLOCK!!!!! Later I would find out the party broke up at Six AM. So much for my late night adventures!

I'm gonna break this up so it doesn't seem so long. 


 


 


MAB





 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

Marc-Alan  Barnette

Phil,

Would probably be that Friday and Saturday. I'm kind of open.The whole time I will be conducting different things. I have some artists down there and trying to get them writing. I have some other friends I have to be around. I also have one guy who usually books a couple hours with me so I would do something with him. I could see it being like Friday and Saturday from say 9:30-11:30 or so. Could be afternoon, just whatever people want.  

I would like people to be able to play a couple songs, talk about what they are going through and meet each other face to face. Since you are there during the week as well, if you couldn't make it on the weekend,we could do something a few days later. A lot of the time down there I am just hanging out. I'd rather spend my time helping people. So just tell me what you want. I'll be there.


Eddie, thanks for saying something about the ad. I haven't even heard it. Am always doing something at the time the show is on. But I have already gotten one tour guy out of it so it actually has already paid for itself. I believe in Scott and Heino's show.Is always really good and they are great guys. So I am happy to advertise with them. I think it would be a great avenue for you and the Ramp. And if you want to include that I am the "advice to the songlorn" columnist, feel free to do so.  Always happy to promote this site.


MAB 


 

Marc-Alan  Barnette

                                                MISSISSIPPI, DAY II

 
The next day was a workshop with Steve Leslie. It is very interesting to hear someone else teach the same thing you do but you always learn. Steve is great and was breaking down song construction. Around 30 people in the workshop, which was very good attendance.  He had a couple of things that I learned that were REALLY COOL. 



One of them was LIMITATIONS ARE LIBERATING!!! This was a great tid bit. I talk about the same thing but in a different way.


What that means is when we have constraints placed upon us it makes us be more creative. In other words, when you have a three and a half minute time limit, you have to get all your information in at that time. You have to pick more interesting subject matter, and find a new fresh way to present it. You have to be direct in your approach and you don't have lines to waste. Steve was very good about demonstrating what he was talking about in his own songs. Very good. And then he demonstrated a couple of hit pop songs as well, breaking them down and describing the process as he went. I've done that before also, but it is really cool to hear other people do it. You get new stuff every time.

We pretty much arrived at all the same conclusions although we differed on two main things. When I write, I write from, the first line down. He doesn't like that.  he prefers to find the title or the hook and write wherever it takes him. I do somewhat the same thing, but still I start at the top and work my way down. He also doesn't like the fact that so much of songwriting has hinged on SPEED. To me, SPEED AND FOCUS are two of the biggest skills writers have to develop. The reason is that in the practical reality world, we have to write with other people. (another thing he was not crazy about although all his hits and the main songs he talked about were all co-written) we have to do this as much to LEARN the craft, as the practical application of getting songs 'out there' to the public. Writing something with an active artist is a HELL OF A LOT better than just sitting on it yourself.

So, hit and established writers will have multiple sessions a day. I have a short amount of time to spend time with a person, so I have to be fast at what I do. And I think it is important when you write to have your thought process work faster. Saves from sitting around going "DUH!!!! What are we gonig to write about?" Helps to FOCUS ideas.


We did agree on SENARIOS. He prefers to use 'song Synopsis' but it is the same thing. Writing out some notes about a subject, (for me hooking in a STYLE of song) is all important. So there was some great information.


Then it was WORK TIME.


Since about 18 of us were there doing this (a couple of Mom's in the background for their kids), we all paired up into groups of three or four to try some writing. And yes, before you say "Oh yes!!! MAB KILLED THAT!!!" Actually I didn't. Steve gave everyone titles to write, which I never particularly like doing, but can. We were given ten minutes to spit ball ideas with our group and try to come up with a couple of possible directions to go in. I of course, wrote half a song. So I kind of missed the point of the assignment. But at the very last 30 seconds, did jot down a couple of directions and one was the same as my partners. So we didn't look totally stupid, (no thanks to me. LOL! )

Steve, then talked some more about the craft, most was the same stuff we talk about here all the time. He answered a few questions, which was dead on. Again, same things we get here but not on copyrights which I was thrilled with.


Then it was back to writing. We were challenged with writing a verse and chorus in ten minutes. That I could do. I switched directions from my first verse and incorporated the ideas the other guys had done. But it was only ten minutes and even I don't write that fast. But I will say I did get a pretty interesting verse to share with the group. Was far from perfect, but did have some "MABBING" in it. The other guys had a bit of a chorus and hook so we just kind of threw them all in there. Was fun. I will probably finish it today and zap it off to the other guys and see if they like it.


Then it was time for the class to be over. I was very satisfied and happy to support someone else. Always good to get new input and be able to pass it on. THANK YOU STEVE LESLIE, was great!


MAB 


 

Marc-Alan  Barnette

                                                                   MISSISSIPPI III

After a short break, BMI had DAVID PRESTON there doing a workshop. Interesting as always. Good to see David, he is a good guy.
Right after that was a "20 and under showcase-contest" with some young girls. No guys signed up. I only saw the first three, was fairly underwhelmed. They tend to sound very Taylor-ish or Hip hopish.


I hooked back up with Tina who had been shopping in the really cool little shops around the town square.


My gigs that night started at BOOTS AND SPURS, which was the largest venue of the festival. It started playing to literal tables and chairs, but ended up with a few people. Performing with me was a local guy who looked the part, like Jeffery Steel. He had a good performing style and voice, but I had trouble discerning what he was singing about. Ennunciation would help a lot. But he was a very nice guy. Randy Williams was his name. Enjoyed playing with him very much. With just two of us, we were able to do about 7 songs each. I thought it was a very good pairing.


Again, I was only supposed to play a couple of songs, but one of the people supposedly performing didn't  show up. I don't really get that, but have seen it happen a lot. People get on these things and then just don't show up. Pretty interesting career moves.


The last gig was in this basement, the JULIP ROOM, where Elvis used to hang out. it was litereally a basement under a pretty nice formal dining room. Interestingly enough one of the guys I was playing with again was Randy Williams, the guy from the show before. So we both felt a little more comfortable. In between us was what I call the "Fraternity Brother Writer." These are the guys at every fraternity, that kind of sit in the corner and play cover songs. He had quite a fan group with him, who cheered everything he did. Personally i could barely understand anything he was saying, again ennunciation but also singing very quietly, which was strange given the type of music he was doing which was supposed to be country. It seemed like very watered down country, but his friends all liked him very much.


All of it was a very good experience. The volunteers were great, the venues very cool and each one with it's own vibe. The audiences were for the most part polite, with some people really getting into it, some not quite understanding the eticate. It is most definately something I hope I get invited back on. Could be quite a fun thing with Gatlinburg in August, Mississippi in Sept, and Frank Brown in Oct. I'm just a festival dude!!!!


Along the way I met some WONDERFUL PEOPLE! That is the point of all of this. 


 


Thanks for reading.


MAB 


 

Phillip (phil g.) Grigg

MAB, I hope you don't show up at Frank Brown a month early. It isn't until November; 6-17th. I know you're not that old yet. LOL Memory is the second thing to go you know.


Thanks for the Mississippi report! Sounds like it was a great time for you and Tina!


phil g.

Marc-Alan  Barnette

Phil, 

I had them move it. Works better for me. It is now Oct. 6-33rd.

MAB 


 


 


 


 

Marc-Alan  Barnette

Actually, the Shrimp Festival and Bay Fest are in Oct. was seeing billboards about those all weekend. Think my brain went wacky. Actually I'm going back to Michigan in Oct. so I guess it's MAB FEST!

MAB 


 

Gerald Wiebe

@MAB...Before I get to my question, just a little about me.


I've always been able to not really suck too badly at singing. Did the school and church choir thing as a kid but pretty much nothing for most my life besides a short stint in the incredibly lucrative karaoke business (roll eyes here). 


Fast forward a bunch of years to the fall/winter of '07 and I find myself in a small bar in rural Alberta listening to some cowboy poet/bluegrass/country singer having fun and here's me thinking "I could do that....!" So I buy a guitar and relearn some of the chords I learned as a kid, start to learn how to use my new sound gear, start to learn recording using the software I found quite by accident, and by early spring '08, entered my first "writing/recording" monthly contest. Out of 7 entries I'm pretty sure I was 8th, but no matter I'll just do better next time. And here began my passion for writing.


 


So I bust my arse to get to a point where I think I'm worth listening to for at least for a bit, found a small curcuit that fits my one man show and I play about 10 gigs per year plus a few festivals and charity type shows locally. 


 


Here's where I start getting to my question. Just for fun, I wrote a song for our hockey team, they've been playing it at the games for two seasons. I wrote a song for a music festival, got some airplay outa that one, that was cool. I was commissioned to write a song for our town's centennial celebration and perform it at the opening ceremony. A standing O from 500+ people could indicate it was received well. Time and place perhaps, but still... I've performed several of my original songs at almost every show I've played.  


 


My point is this...everyone that knows me, knows I write songs.  Each time I play, I throw it out there that I'm open to cowrite with anyone...just a gentle open invitation to start a dialog. But I can't seem to even buy a live co writer. Even the writers I talked to seem  have a protective fear about cowriting. I would absolutely honored to write with anyone of you folks here, but at the moment, what I'm looking for is that intangible dynamic that is missing in sharing emails, forum posts, or text chats. The experience of getting in the same room with another writer and share that moment. Never had that.


Any tricks, tips, suggestions of bribery, or even offers of MAB tours?

John Westwood

Gerald Wiebe said...


  Each time I play, I throw it out there that I'm open to cowrite with anyone...just a gentle open invitation to start a dialog. But I can't seem to even buy a live co writer. Even the writers I talked to seem  have a protective fear about cowriting.



 Gerald . Excuse me butting in..


Probably   a good way  is to listen to other folks  songs on here. Make comments  and get to know  folk.. Upload some of your material so folk can get to grips with the way  you think and the way  YOU write. Once folk get to  know  you  then things might happen.


 Reminds  me of the story  about the  old  bull and the  young bull.


Both were in a field and right next to them  was a field   full of heifers.


One day  the  young bull spotted that the gate between the  two  fields was open.


 Young  bull says  to old  bull " why dont we race thru the gate and  nab a heifer  each?"


 Old bull says " Lets  just  mosey  on  thru the gate real slow  and casual  and nab  the  lot"


 


 And thats All I have to say  about that !


 


 


 


 


 


 

Gerald Wiebe

Its logical, John. One should never expect to get out more than one puts in. The struggle is not at all with any of the folk here at SR, rather its the ones right here in my backyard I'm trying to connect with. I've even secured two different venues to host writer's nights if only they could commit to participating. I can't review their songs or support them if they don't show up to play or share. That is my battle here.

Marc-Alan  Barnette

Gerald,


Big can o' worms you opened there, Tex. And like everything to do with music, it has a lot of sides to it and not easily explained. Some you probably realize, and some you might not understand how the "other side" thinks. 
So if you'll bear with me and read along, I will try to describe it as best I can.


First of all, it is not just in "your backyard." It is EVERYWHERE. While here on the Ramp and in Nashville, we eat preach, breathe and do co-writing and it is comes completely natural, it is actually something not much of the world understands or even considers.  Unless you grow up in a band situation or being around other musicians, which about 90% of writers/artists are not, you would not even know that it exists. Most people are woefully ignorant of music history and grow up "living room writers", growing up on their own, writing and learning to play on themselves. It is a very personal process, their emotions, their ideas, their realities. Other people simply never enter into their way of thinking. 
As we grow in the craft and realizing the actual business requires other people, we are left to our own designs as to how we get there. It most often leads online, which usually leads directly to the sharks in the business, (which convince them to NEVER trust anyone again in any way shape or form) so you are off the bat, going into something that rubs against people like aluminum siding salesman.


There are also the "bull headed" people, who think they know it all, get reinforcement from their friends and families, and are "not going to do that crappy way that NASHVILLE does it, because listen to all that crap on the radio!!! I can ALREADY WRITE BETTER THAN THAT!!! I DON'T NEED ANYBODY ELSE!" 


So between people that have been burned, and people that have more ego than common sense,you have the problem to begin with.


And while we would all love to have a plethera of co-writers and people beating our doors down, the reality it is a lot like being the kid on the playground no one picks for their team. "PICK ME, PICK ME!!!! MAMA NO ONE WILL PLAY WITH MEEEEEEE!!!!"


Yeah, it is hard. And one of the things you have to rise above. I can only tell you why it is and some examples of what people here have done and continue to do, both here and in their own neighborhood.


#1. SUPPORTING OTHERS.
You can look at this neighborhood as a microcosim of your own. While you might have been around for a while, we have not seen or heard from you till yesterday. You popped up, and we are very happy you are here. We talk all the time about getting involved here, and trying to help everyone, but unless they chime in and let us know about them, we never know if they  are there, or who they are.


And EVERY COWRITER COMES FROM KNOWING THEM FIRST.


No one is going to respond positively to someone who just pops up and says 'hey, I'm new here, WANNA CO-WRITE?"


There are many reasons for this. Knowing what you do and what kind of person you are first. We have all dealt with total idiots.People who are bullheaded, who won't listen to anything, who are arrogant, hard to deal with, don't return messages or phone calls, and usually those people are SOME OF THE WEAKEST WRITERS ALIVE BECAUSE THEY ARE SO INSECURE, so you don't want to deal with them anyway. 


So people want to get to know each other first. That takes time. And everyone wants someone to write with THEM, but they rarely spend any time getting to know the OTHER person.
Have you listened and commented on other people's songs?
Have you gone out of your way on a week night to someone else's show whose music you admire?
Have you visited their web site and talked about THEIR MUSIC and not your own?
Have you directed other people to them and brought people to pay for their music? 


In Nashville, we often know each other for YEARS before we actually bring up the question of co-writing. The higher the level, the more connected, the more proficient the writer, the more they have going on, and the reluctance they have to write with people they don't know.

#2. CONTENT.  
If you are performing a lot, asking people and getting no repsonses, you might have to look at your material. A lot of time, people might just not be interested in the type of songs you write. Younger people, any one under 30, generally have NO interest in writing with anyone over thirty. Usually the over thirty people's songs are not in the "youth pocket."
While you might be doing well in writing for certain subjects, is that what other people are into? Do you do a variety?


 


#3.TIME.
Sometimes it just takes time being out there, and being consistant. If you create a quality product, be it in your own music, or the shows you do, people will come.


But mostly it is just getting to KNOW people first, before any committment to writing. Writing is like dating. You want to know the other person first.


MAB TOURS.
Now you mentioned an interesting thing and you can look at it like this. You see, most of the people here have done my tours. They have gotten to know each other online, and then further that when they have made trips to Nashville.


Take OD, for example. OD has done several of my tours. We have written many many songs, and I have introduced him to many artists and other writers. One of those writers is Norm Bradley, who used to be here a lot until his job changed, keeping him off this site a lot.But at the time, OD was just getting around. So he comes to town. Norm, who lives here would support me at every show I did and support other artists I work with. He came to all our parties and became a big part of "our gang." So Od came in doing a tour, paying me for my time and expertise, the two of them and I wrote a few songs. Two of those, both I and Norm have played all over town. That represents OD, and his name and work gets out there. As people get to know him, they possibly want to write with him down the line, if he can keep from driving the women crazy.
But an interesting "side benefit" is that OD's opinions have gotten more and more educated. He is actually very good at giving out constructive advice for people. He has pushed Kevin to write tighter. Kevin's overall songs have gotten better. At the same time, he has traveled to Texas to visit Justin, and get to know his family and him. He has saved Justin some steps of coming here and helped him tighten up his songs.


So out of one person paying me to learn some things, he has been impacted and impacted 3-4 other people.  And he has gained friends for life. He has visited Boston, to see Matt. He has gone to Florida,.where he met and worked with a dozen other writers. 


Now if you did something similar, it would be the same with you if you followed up. I just dropped off another person at the airport. Her name is Janice Starodub. she is from Winnipeg and four years ago, thought there was no one around her either. She learned some things from me, did a few tours, had me up to Canada, and now has developed into a full blown manager, about to get one of her artists a record deal out of Nashville, has put a full festival together and has gotten a reputation as THE GO TO person when it comes to country songwriting in her part of the country.


Another is Matt Casey, who is in Boston. He now has a writing group of 200 people from New England to Nashville, writes with dozens of artists, has had hit writers to Boston, won this years NSAI song contest, and now has his own publishing company in Nashville.


But had those people not done anything with me, or been over here building their connections, they would have not done any of that. But EVERYONE of them did things for OTHER PEOPLE FIRST. Whether it was paying for my tours, finding ways to get artists gigs or open doors, co-writing or developing artists, it all started with them doing things for OTHERS FIRST. 


It just takes one. You start there. It is hard. If you are in some place as big as Canada, or remote like john in Austrailia, it is going to be harder to do. But it can be done.


You should be listening to other people's material. Developing personal relationships with them here online. And PARTICIPATING IN THIS THREAD. The people who just come in, are here for a while, all seem to not do a lot. People that stay involved, usually find out information that helps them in their own areas. That is what you are doing now. If you stay involved, post, ask questions, people will get to know you and then you will find co-writers if you are writing what they are interested in. 


That is the secret.


MAB

Kevin Emmrich

All true.  "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

OD OldDog

Gerald Ol Buddy,


The advise The MAB gave you is right on.  I can relate to your story because I to was influenced by music at an early age,  and took a long time off before I really got into writing songs and wanting to be a better writer.


The thing that drew me to this Forum was the fact, MAB knew how to write at the Nashville Bar and teach us how to write better songs and how we could write closer to that Bar as well.


Aside from his list of artists and songwriters he has helped and worked with, over the years, he has a much larger list of average folks like you and me, he has helped along the way.


Older guys and gals (like us) that want to become better songwriters and write closer to that Nashville Bar, that will improve with every song we ever write in the future.  For most of us, we have made a living at our chosen careers outside of songwriting; but we now have a desire to pursue a dream in music we kept to ourselves and on the back burner.  All of a sudden we want to go for it.


It most cases we can't hear the difference between the style and sounds of our music to that being played on the radio.
Sometimes the current radio music is so out of touch with the music we like (and grew up with) we don't care for the current stuff at all and choose not to listen.  


That is fine; but proves we have a disconnect with the music and the younger audience that does like that music.  That is the lesson The MAB talks about with us needing to write with younger artists; if we want our songs to sound current and for us to find the younger artist to write with.  We can also write what we want and how we want if that is what we want to do.


I did listen to your song on open mic and it was fine.  You have an older traditional style you write in, and your performance is good.  However, your song sounds dated and in the style of older country.  That is fine but you limit yourself to the number of co-writers that will want to join you in co-writing  that older sounding style.


The traditional country sound still works in the Texas market;  but only in Texas.  Not sure where you are from but I would guess Canada from your last post.


Now about the MAB Tours, I don't want to make this post an advertisment for a Tour; but I will have to give my honest opinion that you can gain so much with a tour, and become a much better artist/songwriter by taking one and hopefully more.


The truth is; it's not just a Tour that makes a trip to Nashville so special; it's meeting the like minded people that love music and love learning the craft of writing songs.  For me, the tours are great but the relationships and friends I make is the best part.


OD


 


 


 

John Westwood

Gerald,


My entry  into Writing and Songramp  and cowriting  took a different path.


Back in  late 2003 the drummer of my  old band  ( I was the bass plonker )  introduced me  me to his lady partner  who said because of infirmity she  couldnt work  but  bought a keyboard, taught herself and  "wrote songs". I was intrigued  and being the chauvinist  I am, I thought " well if she can do it so can I".


I cast around the net  for  songwriting sites and landed here   and promptly forgot I  had registered.   I ended up on the  now closed Songwritersforum.com,  run by Wayland Patton. Many  members of that site  are now members  here too


Through interaction  with  folk on there  I met  musicians who, over time, were willing to add sound and vox to my  lyrics . As a result  I have have some 75 tracks   in  my Archive.


Only  1 was a cowrite with an Australian.  ( I am a Kiwi  by citizenship, born in England and living in Australia ) .  Several were written with folk in UK and  several  with  an American living in Paris. The remainder were written  with Americans ( no canucks )  and a couple with MAB   but he doesnt  count Smile .


 The point of this ramble is that  if your   the folk in your pond arent willing  then  get to  know folk on here  and start by interacting socially  and  by reviewing  their songs . That way they get to know you and you build a relationship  then doors  open.


Dont ignore your own pond though. In the last 12 months I have "found" a handful of folk that want to interact locally , mainly  playing guitar rather than writing  but  from small beginnings......


MAb has just  "introduced "  me to a lady  whodid his tour  who was returning to Melbourne  so we have  hooked up  once and plan to do  so  more often once she has  settled in her  new  job nd found her own place to live..


If Iadnt  got  around  developing  online songwriting relationships, I would not have stayed with Songwriterforums, met  Kip Marchetti and  cowrote about 35 songs with  him then moved here  to Songramp when SWF closed. Kip is the best friend I have that I have never yet met.


 


Through Songramp I met several other  good folk online  and  one day  when Planning a trip to UK  I said to Robyn, why dont we  fly  via USA  and drop in at Nashville  for a couple of days and see what it is all about.


As soon as I posted that  I was coming over  and asked  would anyone  like to meet up  for a beer . I was offered a place to stay  and introductions to loads of Nashville locals.


That was the start  of the rot!  Since then   I have been back to NAshville  5 times ( at a  cost  of  $2000+  per person ) but its been worth  it simply  from a social  perspective.  Ive met  many  folk off songramp ,  Met MAb  and through  him   been introduced  to folk  I would never have  knowingly  rubbed shoulders with .


 


 So


 


 The point of this  Get to know  folk first  .. Just  Like Marc  has said..  Know folk first . Things spring from that..


 


 J