It comes down to a very basic formula. If you want to be a LONE WOLF, you can do that. If you want to work with others, you have to work with others. People come to Nashville to work with others. If you want to lone wolf it, this is not the place for you.
MAB
Mornin yall!
Marc is your email still the aol account?
I know an 8 year old girl singer going to Nashville soon to compete in an international contest. Her mom (my cousin) has asked me to help her with a couple of original songs to take to Nashville. (stop rolling your eyes dangit!)
Before I tell her to call you are interested in working with this age group? I have told mom to let her develop for a couple more years but the more ribbons her daughter wins the more excited she gets. I know you've seen this a 100 times. Anyway, she IS a very good singer and I am going to compose a song or two around her "lyrics'.
Ive explained the entire "going to Nashville to write and record a demo" process in detail. Ive told her that recording a demo in Nashville is also important. If you want a client that young Ill make sure she gets something good together before wasting your time.
Personally I think shes too young but maybe Mom needs to learn the hard way. Like you told me years ago,
"You have to get a reality check before you can get a royalty check".......
Anyway my new email is hoggard68@gmail.com
send a message so I can get your info please.
Talk at ya soon!
Hey Matt,
Man it is great to hear from you. just talking about you last weekend. I met a pair of girls from Oklahoma City that knew of the NSAI group but had not been there. I told them to look you up. Could be a very interesting duo for you to hook up with. Cute girls but not too young and very down to earth. Call themselves "Willow Way." www.willowway.net. I hate to say I can't remember their names. I don't know that they introduced themselves, just got the group name. Really cool girls.
8 Year olds are actually WAY too young, but I would like to meet with the Mother and the daughter and explain some "facts of life" to them. There are a lot of people doing this same thing. They bring their 4-5-8-10-12 year olds into all this, they get some attention, and the "Awwwwww" factor. Then of course, the "cute factor" wears off quickly, the kids lose interest as all kids do, the parents run up a LOT of bills, the kid's voices, faces and bodies all change, hormones kick in, and you have Justin Bieber, McCauley Culkin and Lindsey Lohan's, all over the place. Washed up at 12 years old.
Voices keep changing until about 21 years old. The songs they are writing and performing that sound cute at 10 are really creepy at 13. They ALWAYS find some guy or a bunch of guys who assure them "The world is looking for a new Taylor Swift and SHE IS IT!!!!" The next thing, they have spent $20,000 in that guy's studio, their voice has changed and none of the industry people are the least bit interested because THEY ALL MELT DOWN, EMOTIONALLY, MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY.
All the Mother's who used to put their kids into beauty contests, modeling schools and acting classes, now buy them guitars, put them into all the contests and think that they are going to be the next Taylor or Justin.
About as predictable as they come.
Age is a huge factor because if they are really young, who are they going to sell to? Think anyone about 10 years older than them in age are going to be told about love from a girl who is not out of "Pull ups" yet? It gets really silly sitting with some 12 year old talking about "all the guys who have done them wrong!" "He Stopped drinking MILK today!!!!!"
Studios can make them sound and look good. Managers (Momangers, and DADingerrs!) can run them in the ground. They might even get a couple of shots, but believe me, the "Cute" wears off REALLY QUICK. As far as actually "working" with anyone, 18 is about my age limit. They are old enough to make some decisions,are maturing into what they are doing and won't quit on a dime. (Sometimes!) They still feel entitled, but have experienced some reality. Reality doesn't exist to an under 15 year old. And not a lot after that.
Kids wear out with their attention spans in a very quick moment. What they were "SO EXCITED IT WAS ALL THEY WANTED TO DO" one week, turns into "GOD, WHY DO I HAVE TO DO THAT AGAIN", the next week.
I often refer it like this:
Have you, or anyone you know ever gotten really big into sports very early? Say playing football or baseball around 6-7-8 years old. Especially the ones who have an inch or two on all the kid's their age. They run a little faster, hit a little harder, are the best on the field. Then they get into Jr. high School, and they are still pretty hot.
Then comes high school, and they are not the biggest around. Even if they are, some of the teams they play are nearly or as big. They are not the sole standout anymore. And they start getting tired of summer work outs, weight rooms, being concious of weight, playing hurt, having to go to special doctors to get rehabbed when those injuries don't heal so fast. The parents hire personal trainers, and they are missing all the fun things their friends are doing.
By the time college rolls around, they are really starting to rethink this. And they have to keep grades up too.
A lot of things come their way. Fame, for some. They implode. People offering them money. A LOT of them now are getting in trouble with the NCAA. People go to jail.
How many of those go pro? How many get injured? Brian Bosworth come to mind?
The point of this is that you are never going to even know any of this until quite a few years into it and every one of those "THIS IS ALL THEY WANT TO DO" people that I have ever known, usually fade out. I only know one right now, Dani Jamerson, out of hundreds I have worked with that still move forward. The rest are beaten by time,run out of money, or just plain give up.
So yes, I would be happy to get together with them, although I don't know that I would do the writing thing with them. I just don't think they are ready for that. Performance tips, Networking ideas, ways to move forward in their home towns, sure, I can give suggestions. And I can tell them A LOT about what to avoid. Send her my way.
Always remember this. I started this AT FOURTEEN YEARS OLD. My Dad was my biggest supporter. So I have seen it all from every side. I do know where it falls apart, and how to deal with it. Or how to walk away.
Great to hear from you.
MAB
You are always able to add more detail to any situation.
Ive told the Mom most of this stuff many times but its like trying to stop a train. She also has the girl into acting and all that other stuff. Since she is family I will do what I can for them from here. Maybe help the girl write a song so she understands the process. I do think hearing it all straight from you will be what she really needs.
I didnt want to send her your way without your permission first. I also told her all that stuff about voices changing and looks changing and whatnot but the biggest thing I said was, "let the kid be a kid for awhile". I hope she does well in the international competition.
they are hell bent on recording a demo too. I told them keep it to 1 or 2 songs and keep it cheap. Ill do them a nice G/V for free but I dont know if they will be satisfied with that.
So, I will give them your information. I dont know when they will be in town but I will tell her to schedule a meeting well in advance of the trip.
Who knows, maybe I can get back out that way soon.
Give Tina and Dixie hugs for me!
MH
They always have to do it their way. I do understand and will be happy to see them. How about if I said it like this:
Okay, for the next TEN years you are going to be driving around from city to city, waiting in lines to get a chance to sing 30 seconds of a song for judges, people that absolutely don't want to have anything to do with you. You are going to mostly get 'Next" and many times won't even get a chance to do anything, yet be sent home. You are going to meet thousands and thousands of kids, Fathers and mothers doing the same thing, that want you out of the way.
You are going to be working 15 hours a day, not only doing homework and your usual stuff but networking online 5 or 6 hours a day. You are going to miss every fun trip and every vaction your family and friends go on. You are going to invite bullying from people who think that YOU THINK YOU ARE BETTER THAN THEY ARE. You are going to get VERY nasty people online calling you every name in the book.
You are going to be ignored by people continually.
You are going to encounter the creepiest people you can imagine all telling you THAT THEY KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH AND FOR YOU. You are going to sign two or three really bad deals that end up costing you money. When you start to play gigs,you will get some attention, but then a lot of that attention will be very fleeting. You will win a couple of contests, but they will be over after they are over and nobody cares. You will lose more contests because the other people brought more people. You will get some really cool bookings and be very excited about them,tell all your friends, post it on Facebook, and then the day before will be dumped because the sponsor's daughter decided she wanted that slot.
You will spend the equivilant of two college educations doing songs people tell you are perfect, and then have them turned off at the intro by publishers or industry people. You will slave over everything you do, be cut to the quick when people criticise them, finally get them perfect, record them, perform them, and the FIRST THING PEOPLE IN THE INDUSTRY TELL YOU IS "NOW WE NEED TO GET YOU SOME SONGS!" You will always find out that your package, photos, videos,are out of date and you need to re-record, sboot, re-do everything. AT THEIR STUDIOS.
You will buy instruments that don't work out. You will purchase the latest in recording equipment only to find out that it takes a mechanical engineering degree to operate it AND that it went extinct them moment you bought it because the NEW SOFTWARE That just came out, doesn't correspond with what you bought.
You will spend a lot of money and months recording CD projects then write new songs you like better than the ones on your CD. You will be pushed to record songs you don't really like because they were written by a writer that had a hit song ten years ago. And it will be their bottom drawer material. You will sit in writing appoitments and all your ideas will be shot down. You will sit around doing nothing while two guys you don't know, write things you wouldn't say in ways you wouldn't say them. Then wonder why you are not that keen on the ideas.
You will finally get a couple of meetings and be told you are "too old to fit the demographic." Or you finally get a development deal, then after two years, find out the owner of the company went bankrupt and fled the country with what money was left. You will get a record out after three years of waiting only to be told that the company is 'changing direction" and the music you have been doing is "so five minutes ago."
Washed up before you get your first real car.
Still want to do this?
MAB
Oh yeah. That just covers to age 17.
I love when MAB answers questions with the brutal truth.... honestly I think that's the only way to bring people to reality is with his analogies he does... MAB you never cease to make me LOL just cause you speak the truth so frankly.
good stuff...
Good to finally hear from you Brother. I hope you don't continue to read along and not join in. Do you have any new songs posted the Old Dog can pick over and give you a soft critique??? Ha!!! Truly, I really like your songs and the background instruments you add to them.
Ha, ha -- I am calling you out. Actually, I added a percussion and bass to a song and I am not a bass player (or percussionist) at all! Besides not being any good or practicing, I just don't think like a bass player. Check out Slightly Out of Phase II and give me some pointers on bass construction (bass doesn't start until the first chorus). My earlier attempts were more inventive and interesting, but there were just too many bum notes. I had to simplify, simplify, simplify.
As a shout out to all the texas hats, I have a line about a rodeo in there!!!
... and don't mention BIAB -- I play all the instrumentation on this one (ha, ha). yea, yea, yea, the lyrics are about nothing. I know, i know, i know!
Matt Hoggard!!! Hello Oklahoma dude! Glad to hear you are doing well.
Wish someone had told me that about 30 years ago. Would I still have done it? Of course. But I might have been able to slice some time off it and been able to handle it better. Namely:
#1. Had I not just been around the same guys all the time, I might have developed my writing in more applicable ways. Instead of trying to parrot the groups we were watching and just trying to be them, I might have learned more and gotten different input. Songs would have turned out better.
#2. Had I gotten out of my little bubble more, out of Birmingham, I might have seen and experienced more music and ways to approach it.
#3. Had I written MORE SONGS, I might not have recorded so much crap, thinking it was great.
#4. Had I done more VARIED CO-WRITING in Birmingham, made trips to Nashville, I might have had a different opinion of music, thereby being more open to co-writing in Nashville. Probably wasted three years concentrating on writing for myself as the artist.
While a couple of those songs would end up being cut, I still always wrote for me and my own vocal range and attitudes. And when the bottom dropped out of the "Country Soul boom" I wouldn't have been caught so flat footed.
#5. Letting more songs go to be recorded. Again, trying to be the ARTIST, I hung on to songs for myself that could have done more good being recorded by other artists.
#6. Realized earlier that contests were very limited in what they were going to do for a career.
#7. Probably should have signed with BMI. They tend to be a bit more intereactive with promising writers. ASCAP tends to "let the writer develop on their own." You become truer to yourself but don't rise as fast.
#8. Taken three years just writing with other people instead of trying to do an artist thing.
So could I have benefitted from ME? Absoutely. Wouldn't have put so many eggs in one basket.
MAB
Hey Mattly,
Good to hear from you. Looking good in your avatar pic Brother. Hey, about MAB's truth and his wisdom.
I think we all agree but sometimes the parent of a young artist doesn't want to hear the truth.
They shut it out and grab up their young; like a duck covering up their ducklings during a Thunder storm.
They just let the truth slide off their backs like rain drops in a storm.
OD
Everyone thinks THEY ARE THE ONE. They all think they have something so unique and amazing there is nothing like it anywhere. The songs are so interesting and unique because their grandmother has never heard anything like it.
One of my favorite eye opening moments are taking someone to a writers night and hearing almost THE EXACT SAME SONGS that they have written, done over and over and over again. The titles are the same. The chord patterns are the same. The rhymes are the same. The progress of the story is the same. Finding out the fact that there IS NO STORY is the same.
A lot of people come to this in a feeling of discovery. They write some songs, people like them. They actually have a good time playing them. They go to a local open mic, and some people don't hate them. Suddenly, like a person who hits a good golf shot, THEY WANT TO DO IT EVERY DAY AND TELL EVERYONE ABOUT IT.
They get a little cocky. They write a bunch of stuff they think is really good. They learn a new chord. They find a new rhyme. They really get full of themselves.
Then they go to that local writers night, and everyone ignores them. As high as they were before, now they hit bottom. They want to break their guitar!
A few days later, they pick it back up and then discover a new chord or rhyme, STARTS ALL OVER AGAIN!!!!
Then they REALLY get cocky. That is when they come to NASHVILLE.
Welcome to the professional football league.
After they get their heads caved in a few times there, they tend to slow down a little. Most actually quit there. Some just decide TO HATE NASHVILLE!!!! GOD BLESS TEXAS!!!!!
So you can still be a BIG FISH IN A LITTLE POND, or get YOUR HEAD BEAT IN DAILY.
What a choice.
MAB
MAB,
Responding to your list of things you could have done differently; if you had someone like you to work with 30 years ago.
I'm sure some of that is true; but I'd like to point out, a few things.
The most important is; would you still try to make it anyway....... your answer was "Sure".
In your younger days you worked with your father, that had to deal with his own disappointment of leaving the group Statler Brothers; or the Oakridge Boys (sorry I can't remember which) just before they made it big and went on to become a very popular and prosperous group.
You tried your best at several different business adventures with your father; like restoring old cars and selling comic books.
You found your own calling with music and was the lead singer of a group (24 Karets) that won a National Battle of the Bands, mostly because of your great vocals and singing range. You found what you wanted to do in life and followed your father's advise to find what you loved and figure a way to make it pay for you.
You began working with Ron Muir, a seasoned Nashville writer that saved you years of time by writing good songs and understanding the art of co-writing. You made several trips to Nashville to demo songs and check out the town; before you made the decision to move there in '88' .
You did everything right and even hung around, when you finally made the move, to be the last act to play for "tables and chairs" which ended up impressing one of the few patrons left in the house, resulting in your Shelby Lynne cut some several months later.
You performed on the stage for numerous rounds and had great songs like "The Grand Opening" and "Can't Blame Nobody But Me"; of which the latter song was requested by a young Garth Brooks to record, and loved by everyone that heard it; including Larry Butler and his wife.
You put a band together to perform your songs on stage; that included the "Kinnley Sisters" that went on to get their own deal; but they still love to perform with you on certain occasions.
You have become friends with so many songwriters to include Jimbeau Hinson, Richard Leigh, and so many others that consider you a friend and fellow artist.
You have helped build the careers of great writers and artist's like Julie Morriva, Frankie Ballard, Dani Jamerson, and so many others that are called your "New Crew" or just grateful students that are happy to have met you during their journey.
You have also helped so many of us "wannabees" that have no chance of making it in the big time; but all of us thank-you for helping us improve on our writing and being a part of our musical jouney.
You have so many songs out there not even heard yet, and so many great songs that still have a chance of being heard and become a hit song if the right people get ahold of it. Of course not all of your songs are "Homeruns". Please check back with the Old Dog for a list of those that are, and those that are not. Ha!!!
Sure, there are a lot of things we would all change if we could go back 30 years; but you have done well my friend.
OD
KevMo said (quote):
Good to finally hear from you Brother. I hope you don't continue to read along and not join in. Do you have any new songs posted the Old Dog can pick over and give you a soft critique??? Ha!!! Truly, I really like your songs and the background instruments you add to them.
Brother KevMo, I gave you song a couple of listens (because the lyrics weren't posted and I had a difficult time hearing what you were singing).
Do you want me to give you my 'soft' response on MAB's Q&A Forum; or send you a private message???
OD
Thanks OD, I feel the same way. All you say is right on. The only thing not quite right is that my Dad was never a regular member of the Oak Ridge Boys. He just filled in with them for a few times over a couple of months, way back in their Gospel days. The Oaks have been around for about 75 years.
He was always a temporary fill in. The "Pete Best of the Oak Ridge Boys" is really just a private joke between me and Rusty Golden, the son of the Oak's William Lee Golden. He was never really seriously considered for that or that dissapointed in not being in their success. He would have been long gone before the country years came in any way, being much older than any of those guys. It was about 20 years after he quit music that their country days came in. He was a big fan of theirs over the years.
But it is a pretty funny aspect of music.
Everything else is pretty right. Thanks for noticing.
MAB
Well MAB,
The Old Dog is not just another pretty songwriter (that you are accustomed to). I do listen from the back of the class; while serving the Girls Champagne, giving neck rubs, and offering them another chocolate.
It's trying to keep The Kid, Philboy, KevMo, and a few others out of their cooler that is the most distracting.
I still try to steal the notes from the front of the class, to catch up at the end of the day.
OD
Do you want me to give you my 'soft' response on MAB's Q&A Forum; or send you a private message???
Either way is fine. The lyric formatting was so bad that I didn't even try and use it. If you want to see the lyrics you can go here: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=1144009&songID=12902182
I know I "swallowed" a couple of phrase endings, but I sang and played guitar on one mic -- hard to go back and fix those! The rest of the lyrics should have been easy to understand -- but maybe not.
EDIT: I just realized that they do have private messaging here, I missed that!
OD,
I've got a song I wrote and recorded myself I'm just waiting back from a guy, he's a bit later than I thought I fig'd i'd have it by now, I'll let you know and you can "O'Demolish" it for the kid... LOL just teasitn' the day OD says "Kid I find no fault in that song" is the day I'll buy OD a lifetime supply of beer!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL just teasin' brother, LOVE your critiques cause in all seriousness they always challenge me to think deeper, get lines tighter, less wordy, say more with less, and overall help alot!
Kids off to a Josh Ward show!!! 9pm good night all!
Hey MAB! You're always talking about how lyrics are written now, as opposed to in the past. Here's a great example of that in REVERSE. Check this out from the time when you first started writing. Well worth a look. I hope everyone can appreciate this. LOL!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/27/pop-sonnets-shakespeare_n_5718453.html
Ive just posted a song taking into account MABS advice. Something (very )old with a new twist , updated the sound and style and kept the lyrics brief and to the point.
You can hear it here 
https://www.songramp.net/musicians/tainted-alibi/song/if-i-were-a-celt-today/
Wow, you guys certainly know how to post some things and mention me yet I can't figure out what they have to do with me. LOL!
Shakespeare is so far beyond me I can't even make sense of the joke. Guess I am really stupid. Ed, I don't know what you meant by "what I said about how lyrics are written today.." but all I have ever said is that for the most part in Nashvillle writing, they are written at the time as the music instead of one or the other at a time. But there are no real rules. Just how I personally write.
John, I can't figure out what I had to say about instrumentals, but thanks if it helped you at all.
Good to hear from you guys. What we talking about today?
MAB
Hey Kevin! Liked your song. So, for you and anyone else that wants to post a song and lyrics, Here's how I do it. First, I don't even try to post the yrics when I upload the song, because that little 1 line scroll box is just TOTALLY USELESS (HINT HINT to the architects). So, when I upload I either do or don't publish, but then I go back in and edit the song. The Lyrics text box there is MUCH better. BUT, just like on the old system, you CANNOT copy your lyrics from a Word document. You need to first copy your Word .doc to a Notepad .txt. You need to remove all tabs, because those don't copy to the Ramp text box. Format your Notepad with spaces and carriage returns only. (NOTE: Even here, I cannot seem to get more than 3 or so leading spaces to copy over. EVEN AFTER it is in the Ramp text box, if I add the leading spaces they seem to get removed anyway?) Also, any bolded text is converted to plain text when you copy from Word to Notepad, and I cannot find a way to change it in the Ramp text editor.
phil g.
Phil, I reposted the lyrics and voila, it seems to look OK to me. Check that song out again and let me know if the lyrics look like lyrics should!
Kevin. Yep, those are about how mine come out too. I try to add leading spaces to indent the chorus. It looks good when I edit it, but when it is displayed in the listening web page, the spaces are mostly or all gone. Don't know why.
Any body heard the song, "Girl In A Country Song"? I finally really "heard" it for the first time the other day. The DJ said the song was about girls digging the guys about the way they were being portrayed in the Bro Country songs. So I really listened. GREAT song now! And I couldn't agree more with the girls! I personally don't know how girls take the demeaning in country songs today. Wander if it will chang the Bro songs at all?
phil g.
