The music hasnt change and it is still there tho in lesser quaantity. Its the genre name that has moved.
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Yea John, I think you're right. Most of the folks that post here, are more reactionary to other posts than writing new posts. Thanks for that info about Henley's take on the state of music. Do you have a link to the interview?
Big Ed is right on about where "country music" is headed. I only listen to "current" country, and go check out the top 25 every week or so. Of those top 25, you can count on no more than 4 fingers, the ones that come even close to "sounding" like "country"; meaning, country from about 6-10 years ago or more. The majority of "country songs" now days has a definite "Pop" sound, rhythm, feel to them. And for anyone who thinks "it is going back"; Ain't happening! Get on board, or find a classic country station to listen too.
Congrats Eddie R. on your gigs! I still only play open mic's here and in Gainesville. Are you coming down to FBISF in November?
I did just get back from Nashville where I played Sam's Jams. Was a lot of fun! MAB played a couple of sets, and was great. Sam is also a pretty good songwriter and entertainer. The real reason I went in the first place was to surprise Melissa. She played an early set at Commodore, and I did not know I was coming. OD even showed up with me! Had a great time hanging out.
OD also came down unannounced, except for me knowing, and we went over to MAB's house Tuesday afternoon. I let OD stand out of view while I went in to get MAB. Told MAB I had brought him a present, but it was too big for me to carry in and needed his help. Boy was he surprised when OD stepped out from behind the house!! It was THE moment of the trip!
The next big moment was when the three of us showed up at Melissa's show at the Commodore. MAB and I walked in first. Really took her by surprise when she saw me. Then she realized MAB was there, and I don't think she expected him to be there either. Then OD walked in. I thought she was going to fall off her stool! Was awesome! After her set we had a few minutes to catch up with her. She was there with Black Creek Productions, and they were all headed out for a private dinner. But I still got what I wanted out of the evening; Totally surprising Melissa. Thanks OD and MAB for coming out with me and participating in the surprise!
Thursday day, OD and I went down town trying to find the bar he was in last year while the kid, Justin, went gift shopping. Unfortunately, we could not find it. BUT, we did go in Tootsies, and from the way OD described the bar he was in last year, it was NOT tootsies!
Thursday night, OD and I went to Maxwell House to catch MAB's set. It was a great round! MAB has some very talented friends in Nashville, but he always seems to up-stage them when they are in a set with him. He is just a much better entertainer.
Overall, it was as great trip, and well worth the 10-11 hour drive up and back, and the traffic jams in Atlanta along the way. Even some of the Nashville traffic jams didn't ruin the trip.
Thanks OD for coming down and keeping me company!! Sorry it was such a short visit. Maybe next time it will be a week or more.
phil g.
Phillip (phil g.) Grigg said...
Yea John, I think you're right. Most of the folks that post here, are more reactionary to other posts than writing new posts. Thanks for that info about Henley's take on the state of music. Do you have a link to the interview?
phil g.
I was quoting a quote from Facebook. No link was provided
j
Phil,
Of course my brother Robert and myself will be coming down for the FBISF. Robert will have a couple of new songs and I might have one also. Robert always has to go home Saturday so he can be at his church Sunday as if it would collapse if he wasn't there. I would like someday to stay down there for the full two weeks.
Eddie R
Of course my brother Robert and myself will be coming down for the FBISF. Robert will have a couple of new songs and I might have one also. Robert always has to go home Saturday so he can be at his church Sunday as if it would collapse if he wasn't there. I would like someday to stay down there for the full two weeks.
Eddie R
Eddie, I forgot you guys leave on Saturday. If you come down for the beginning on the 3rd, I may miss you this year. I usually go over for 2 weeks, but this year I'm leaning towards not going over until Monday the 7th and will leave the last Saturday, or may stay through Saturday and leave on Sunday.
phil g.
Hey folks,
Sorry to have been away. I tend to gravitate in other areas if there is not much to discuss here. Glad to see Ed pop back up and hope the 24 NOTES song is doing well.
Got to see Phil, Melissa and OD a couple weeks ago and was great having them back in town. Always good to see the old familiar faces.
To those coming in for the Ramp Bash, Nashville is in great weather and time although if you have alergies, make sure you bring medicine because EVERYTHING blooms around here so it is pretty hard on people with those problems. I am sure the Creek will be beautiful and great that Steve is offering the place for everyone again. Will be a great time to be here.
I will be in Tuscaloosa Alabama and doing family stuff so I won't see you this time but know you will all have a great one. As always, if anyone needs anything, hitting me here privately or my private email is always a way to get me. And my phone number is always pretty easy to find. It's on my web site.
Have a good day and if anyone has anything to talk about, as always, post away.
MAB
On one note on Phil and Ed's posts about the "state of country music" and it sounding more "pop or rock." it has always done that. Country always has a 15 year curve as new listeners come into the format, and older ones leave. It is always going to get younger and the music and genre will change. Always has, always will.
Still tells a story, still engages the listener and still has multiple styles and attitudes. Just like the rest of music.
Every form of music goes through changes. Since Prince just passed away, along with Frey, Bowie, and many others, look at how the music they made has changed through the music of today. It all changes. And those that "knew it back then" don't like it now, and those "Now", don't like anything from "way back then." Same as our parents, grandparents and all aspects of music and entertainment.
And for the "Can the DYING STOP NOW?" Crowd, need to get a grip on themselves and have some perspective. Anyone who is in the Entertainment business live a very, very hard life. Fast paced, hard living, drinking, drugs, lifestyle, poor health habits, all take time, which is why most artists, writers, painters, authors, etc. burn out early. The ones who continue on, tend to age faster than most people.
Now we are in the age of the stars of the 70's, 80's and 90's are dying off. Just like our parents and grandparents saw their heroes, Gary Cooper, Clark Gable, Bogart, Monroe, Nat King Cole, Elvis, etc. who were their heroes in the 30's 40's and 50's, start dying off in the latter 50's and 60's, we have to get used to seeing our heroes in our time die off.
It is never pleasant but it happens. We should celebrate the impact they leave behind and be grateful for the time we have and the memories they have.
And as far as the "Everything sounds the same" stuff goes, ever listened to Prince's "PURPLE RAIN" and JOURNEY'S "FAITHFULLY?" Yeah, they all sound the same. Even our idols.
Take care.
MAB
Hi MAB! You know, Prince saw all these Rock Bands with big arena Power Ballad Anthems, and Purple Rain was his answer to having one of his own. Worked out pretty well! LOL!
Hey MAB! Good to hear from you again! I sure wish I could spend more time in Nashville. Just love it there! Really good people there I've met.
Well, Jason Aldean has a new song out, "Lights Come On". It is a typical Jason pop/rock tune, with some great imagery in it. It is currently #19 on the country billboard. The reason I bring this up, is because Brent Baxter, a top writer in Nashville, wrote an article about the song explaining how, in his opinion, the song did so well. It is a really good article, and shows songwriters what the "Nashville bar" looks like, and what it takes to write a hit these days.
Here is a link to the song; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5cv1d_m4g0
Here is a link to Brent's article: http://manvsrow.com/2016/04/25/aldeanlights/
I hope y'all get some insight into what it requires to write a song for current country.
phil g.
Phil,
Interesting that you brought this song up because yesterday, I was sitting at a VERY LONG light, reading your post, and the song came on the radio. And before I went to Brent's article (I do know him, by the way), I had thought EXACTLY what he was saying. Some things to remember:
This is SUMMER SONG. When the summer touring/concert season comes around, you are going to get all the "let's party, drink a few, etc." songs. It is because the namby pamby love stuff, or LOSS OF LOVE stuff don't work in the large outdoor or indoor concert arenas. Aldeen actually has a pattern. About every third songs they on him will be one of the big "Fists pumping in the air" songs.
It is an audience response song and will do well live. It is my guess you will hear more on the radio. WE have gone through the "booty call/love song/hooking up" songs that get us through the winter. Now it is time for the party hearty songs.
Which should tell writers something. When they write nothing but the "I love you, but I am so depressed" songs, where is the market going to be for that? When you ask people that, they always go "But I love a good sad song." That is fine, for THEM. But what about the marketplace.
Anyone trying to write for a market place need to be aware of that.
Good post Phil.
MAB
Brent Baxter’s analysis of “Lights Come On” was very interesting. If there’s any truth to all the talk about what “Millennials” are like, then the song should hit pay dirt with Jason Aldean’s audience.
Baxter's second point, “The listener is the hero”, sure sounds familiar:
“Not only does Aldean talk directly to the listener, he’s complimenting them. They’re the hero of the story. The listener is the hardworking guy or the cool girl who deserves a good time. [H]e makes them feel good about themselves, which of course, makes them feel good about the singer.”
Yup. Everyone’s a winner. And everybody gets a trophy.
I wonder if “Who said life is fair?” will ever come back into vogue.
Hey John,
If you are asking about the Aldeen song, it is a moot point. And one of the weaknesses a lot of writers trying to figure this out go through. They try to take things in a vacuum, and it doesn't work that way. To answer your question, "IF an atypical country voice recorded this, would it be as appealing....? It doesn't matter. Maybe, maybe not. If it was an "atypical country voice" who had started his career being a huge live act, with multiple hits in his previous track record, possibly. If he had defined his career like that in the beginning by doing other songs that were AC/DC (Crazy Town) or other songs that were in this vein, had built his fan base on it, quite possibly. Jason's Aldeen is actually BUILT on the AC/DC big concert Anthem in the first place, so that is what he is known for.
But that is the factor. You have to look at artists from a longer perspective. It can't be done on a solitary song basis.
What 60's group could have come in off the street and as a first record released Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band?" Probably none, because they didn't have the cultural standing the Beatles had at that time. The entire psychodelic era, was driven by the Beatles, much from Rubber Soul and experimenting with other songs, sounds, production techniques. Sgt. Peppers wouldn't have happened without Rubber Soul, then "Pet Sounds" by the Beach Boys, and the rest of the cultural revolution.
The Aldeen song and others going on in current country are driven by the elements in the culture, most notably younger people being driven to country, and shifting from rock as rock changes. Go to a Jason Aldeen concert and you are going to see a TON more of AC/DC, Metallica, Led Zepplin t-shirts, than you are going to see Johnny Cash, Merle Haggard or George Jones t-shirts. The audience has changed. So artists are changing with it to play to the demands of the audience.
In my opinion, the song will go to number one easily, will fill the Summer touring season. Aldeen's record company is way behind it and it is picking up steam all over. So would another singer make this into a hit? Have no idea. But most "Atypical" country singers would probably not sing this song in the first place. Hit songs are hit songs because a lot of things line up, from label involvement, previous track record, artists fan base, and all the planets aligning.
One of the most famous songs in country history was THE GAMBLER by Kenny Rogers. IT became a HUGE hit for Kenny, propelling the second half of his career. Inspired movies, a ton of spin offs, and an entire persona for Kenny in the 70's, 80's, into the 90's. But that song was cut nine times by other artists, ranging from Charley Pride, Bobby Bare, Jerry Reed, Don Schlitz himself, and other people, and never went ANYWHERE with them. Why did it work with Kenny? Who knows. Mostly because it was in the right place, right time, with the right artist. There are many songs and artists with the same artists. Songs being out there and going no where for some artist and then exploding with some other artist. No way to predict how that happens.
So the question can't be answered the way you are asking it.
MAB
Great post, Marc. My takeaway from this (and from what you've been saying for a long time now), is that one should write many many quality songs, because even if one of them is an "undeniable" hit (a HUGE "if" that probably exists only in the writer's mind), it will only see the light of day if the stars align correctly (which won't happen unless you are out there making connections, writing with others (preferably artists), and are a likeable person).
David,
Artists are a tricky bunch at best. Total egotists at worst. And music is totally SUBJECTIVE. So unless something is written that REALLY becomes part of them, they are going to only be self interested. I work with a lot of artists and writers who might not be artists, and I always ask them, "you work on your own songs all the time. You spend money getting them demoed, you work hard to get someone to hear them if you are an artist, you only have so many spaces to perform or list songs. If someone you don;t know comes along and tries to get you to take THEIR songs over yours, what would your reaction be?" And it is always "I'd do my own songs."
This is the hard thing about writing and trying to "place" songs with artists. Two of the writers on this particular song are the Warren Brothers. Those are two of the guys behind "Red Solo Cup", one of the most inane (and successful) songs of recent history. Those guys can get anyone to listen to anything they do. And they write a very specific kind of "party" song. That is what this is. If you read Brent Baxter's article that Phil references, you know that all of those precepts are included in this song. Big audience type song. (Anthem), Summer touring season. Making the audience look good. very singable. And right in the wheelhouse of what Jason Aldeen has done before. It is a safe bet for a record company to put money into the promotion of the song, and that money is paying off with his fans. So it is a win win all the way around.
John's question about another artist doing it and getting the same results, really just don't factor in.
On a semi related note, I hate to chide you, but that OC 9 group, that Cliff and Bev are doing are really taking off out there. I wish you would contact them, on Facebook or other wise and find out when they are getting together again. Because they are really doing it right. Cultivating artists, developing them. I hate to have something so close to you that you are not participating in.
MAB
I deserve to be chid (so Shakespearean!). That has been on my "to do" list, and it keeps popping up. I will do that this weekend. Now, mind you, Orange County really is a bit of a haul for us Pasadena folks, but I can think of worse places to go. Thanks, Marc.
David Sanchez said...
I deserve to be chid (so Shakespearean!). That has been on my "to do" list, and it keeps popping up. I will do that this weekend. Now, mind you, Orange County really is a bit of a haul for us Pasadena folks, but I can think of worse places to go. Thanks, Marc.
If OC is too far, there's a group I know of in Compton! Do you also write Rap? LOL! Good luck David!
Hey, Ed. If by "RAP" you mean "really awful poetry,' then, yes, I do that. lol.
If OC is too far, there's a group I know of in Compton! Do you also write Rap? LOL! Good luck David!
Big Ed Moore said...
If OC is too far, there's a group I know of in Compton! Do you also write Rap? LOL! Good luck David!
I'm sorry David. I always thought you said you were in San Diego.
But even with Pasadena, several of the group are from Orange, Irvine, Fullerton, and other areas. I am not even talking about all the time. I'd just find out where they are going to be, go see a show, or contact them on Facebook (OC9 songwriting group). Find out what they are doing. They are not really taking new members, they keep it to NINE. (OC Nine, stands for ORANGE COUNTY NINE), but they are active with shows, and writing opportunities.
But even with Pasadena, several of the group are from Orange, Irvine, Fullerton, and other areas. I am not even talking about all the time. I'd just find out where they are going to be, go see a show, or contact them on Facebook (OC9 songwriting group). Find out what they are doing. They are not really taking new members, they keep it to NINE. (OC Nine, stands for ORANGE COUNTY NINE), but they are active with shows, and writing opportunities.
As always, I can't do anything other than draw your attention to some things that are happening not too far away from you. Of course, Big Ed's option, is fine. It is only about 8 hours from you to go up to his neck of the woods.
My deal has always been very simple. In order to REALLY understand all the elements involved with music, you HAVE to get around other people who are doing music. One of the reasons I started going to California in the first place is that there were people that NEVER got around each other. They had a basic group but not the most tangible results.
Many years later, they have done excessive networking, many members have moved to Nashville, member Dee Briggs, who moved, had one of his songs performed last year on THE VOICE, because he wrote it with Megan Lindsey and Julie Moriva. They have had other members grow expotentially and are really the top group of people I know. All of them are dedicated and while working other jobs, really approach music as a SECOND OCCUPATION. Very inspiring.
So it is always up to you. But it is in your area. Hope you can take advantage of it.
MAB
MUSIC STARTS HERE WEB SITE
Hey guys. I have not been over here as much recently as April and into May have become quite a busy time. Feast or famine in the old Twang town. Hope everyone is well. I wanted to make you aware of something that I have been involved with for a while but is now up and running a little more effectively.
The MUSIC STARTS HERE web site, is an idea started by Doak Turner and Will Carter, many years ago and has gone through a few changes in it's development. It is a site meant to be a sort of a "Music CHAMBER OF COMMERCE' for the town, combining education, services, videos, blogs, articles, from all sorts of sites, teachers, managers, agents, writers publishers, artists, etc. all for educational and organizational purposes.
I will be doing blogs and other events over there and I recommend you all check it out. even if you are not interested in working as much in Nashville there are many songwriter related things you can find to help you up your game. Hope to see you over there as well as here. And as always, anybody with anything you want to talk about, post away here.
MAB
MAB, I am a member today!! Thanks.
For those interested in the 2016 Songramp Bash here is the info
OK, found it online...
https://www.periscope.tv/SongRampRadio/
Looking good, sounding great everyone!
Happy
Attachments
RampRadio on Periscope
https://www.periscope.tv/SongRampRadio/
The latest broadcasts from RampRadio (@SongRampRadio) on Periscope. We are WWW.SongRamp.net - an online community for songwriters.
OK, found it online...
https://www.periscope.tv/SongRampRadio/
Looking good, sounding great everyone!
Happy
Attachments
RampRadio on Periscope
https://www.periscope.tv/SongRampRadio/
The latest broadcasts from RampRadio (@SongRampRadio) on Periscope. We are WWW.SongRamp.net - an online community for songwriters.
Hey folks,
Wanted to shout out to the Rampers who have been in Nashville for the Rampbash. I missed it this year as I was booked out of town and have been packed up here in town while you have all been here. Hope you had a good time and be careful going home. Nashville is always here, hope your experiences were all good.
I did get to see Fast Eddie Minyard and spent Monday actually meeting and working with his daughter Allison. She is a beautiful, talented young woman who was a great experience working with and one of the things that makes what I do so rewarding. She has never really written before and Eddie wanted her to have the "complete' Nashville experience.
We were able to write a song, "AT LEAST I TRIED" about her experiences in moving to the West Coast a while ago, finding out the "land of constant summer" was really not for her,and that what she was actually was looking for was right back at home.
Was a fun song to write as she said almost every line we used in the song. She was a very good co-writer and participated greatly in the process. To me, every aspect of co-writing is the PARTICIPATION. Being able to discuss what someone is passionate about and taking their exact words for the lines make it be much more realistic, and allows the singer to have THEMSELVES INVESTED in the song. It is THEIR STORY. THEIR EMOTIONS. THEIR ADVENTURES.
This is what I have always talked about when it comes to "pitching songs" and why the "inside cut" those written by the artists themselves or their tight circles writing FOR those artists, have such an inside shot at being recorded and why it is essential to include artists in the writing of songs. Because they live it. And in my experience it makes for better songs.
Today I hope to have Allison sing it on the Sam's Jam's show at Bobby's Idle Hour. That will be the COMPLETE Nashville experience. Great girl. Great talent. And thank you Eddie for letting me work with her.
Have a good day folks.
MAB
MAB, good you got to write with Allison! It's great she is going to sing the song at Sam's jams too! Wish it was broadcast live on the internet. Or at least videoed and uploaded to you tube. Would be so cool!
Well MAB, the kid, OD and I will be in the afternoon of July 19th. I am hoping to play Donnie's open mic that night, and will drag OD and the kid along. I also want to play Sam's jams Wednesday before your afternoon bash. I just love Sam's open mic! AND, I've almost got Justin convinced to play Sam's jams also. I guess he'll make up his mind Tuesday or Wednesday morning. Would love to have him join me on stage. Especially since I can play the one song we co-wrote while he is up there. Would be an awesome experience for him!
phil g.