Justin  Parker

That's cool Eddie, most I'll probably move into is hats, coozies, car window stickers. But that's way off in the future, wanting to crawl before I walk. I'm in talks with a friend out here who does Real Life Real Music basically a boot camp for young wannabe songwriters, after this first round I'm going to donate a percentage of sales to their cause. They helped me a few times, and do real good things for our local songwriting scene out here. Probably gonna donate to another venue a portion of the proceeds. Anyways enough of that... back to the music talk!

Phillip (phil g.) Grigg

Justin, sorry kid, but may just already be dealing with legal issues just by creating a design and putting it on an object to sell for profit. There are three levels; copyright, patten, and trademark. I think your t-shirt design falls into the latter, but you should probably get some legal advice there. I [personally] don't think that generic Texas outline or the generic guitar outline are a legal issue, but as soon as you add those slogans, it becomes your trademark. You really should look into what legal steps you should take, if any, to protect yourself.


phil g.

Marc-Alan  Barnette

You might have something there Phil. There might be some legal issues justin has to get through. One thing, Justin, I would always wait until I got the money, delivered the shirts, and get the next orders, before I started talking about donating proceeds, etc. Everyone I have ever known who did merchandise always ends up with some kind of legal issues when they do certain things. Sometimes their profits are eaten up by legal defenses. 

Part of my suggestion to do songwriter's slogans, is that would be with them directly. That would clear up any legal issues at all.


MAB 


 


 

Phillip (phil g.) Grigg

Well MAB, maybe, maybe not. What if some songwriter came to me and wanted 100 stickon thingys that said, "You don't choose music, music chooses you"? Or what about, "It all begins with a song"? Here's another one. I have a song that has a line, "6 strings 3 chords and the truth", in it. And to tell you the truth, I'm not sure that is completely "legal". Might be considered plagerism? And, I don't mention Harlan Howard in the song at all.


phil g.

Justin  Parker

Great points guys, i'll address later, got a wedding i'm literally about to leave for, i have a few questions for MAB about "Making A Niche" and need a good write up for him but i'll pose the question tonight... ties choking me gotta go.

Marc-Alan  Barnette

Phil,

That's not what I am talking about. I am talking about THEIR OWN SONGS. Not mine. I was just using that as an example. You see, writers are always wanting something unique about their own songs and writing. Most people have a song that they have written they would like hats, coozies, etc. "REDNECK YAGHT CLUB." We never tradmarked "TOO MUCH BLOOD IN MY ALCOHOL LEVEL' so now there are a bunch of "TOO MUCH BLOOD IN MY ALCOHOL SYSTEM" shirts out there. But that is a phrase that has been around for many years, we didn't coin it. So we couldn't trademark that.


But if a writer or band in the circles Justin is running around in, say he goes to one of these artist's he is around in Texas, and comes up with a way to get 20-25 shirts in a very quick turn over time, with THEIR OWN SONGS' PHRASE on it. That would be cool. I could probably sell a dozen " YOU DON'T CHOOSE MUSIC, MUSIC CHOOSES YOU" shirts. But I wouldn't want to get 50-100-500 to haul around with me. So if I could have a small order and have them quickly, say by Frank Brown, that would be interesting. Although not this year because I am already doing the new CD.

So I am talking about making shirts per artist and about their songs.


My friend Alice Bargeron, has a great sign that she does in caligraphy in lead solder, and puts it on wood. She also did "It all begins with a song" but that was just a gift to me, not a product to sell. I have tried to push her into doing that for hit writers. Imagine having a really cool one of those that a wife bought for her husband, who was a writer of "American' Kids." Be a nice gift.


RiDawn is also a pretty good artist. She did a painting for me, of "me, playing to a empty club with a few drunk people sitting around. "Playing to Tables and Chairs.' She is a good artist but usually does abstract. So if she is going to do that, she will need to work on that. Of course art is a very subjective thing and she would need to cater what she does to what would be pleasent to the artist and what I might like, might not be what someone else would like.  But I thought she did a very good job and am proud to have it in my new music room. I think a lot of that girl and want her to keep putting her talent out there no matter what format it takes.

So that is it Phil. It would be for the writers themselves on their own music. That is what finding your own NICHE is all about.


MAB 


 


 


 

Phillip (phil g.) Grigg

MAB, yes, I know you're right. Remember the opening lines to, "Missing Link"? "I got a reputation for being kinda cautious, A little too serious." We wrote those lines because they are me. I just worry that some "songwriter" might come to Justin to have a slogan shirt of a line from "his/her" song when in truth they did not write the song. As long as Justin knows the artist, and knows he/she wrote the song, there would be no issues.


phil g.

Marc-Alan  Barnette

Phil,

While I guess that could happen, my doubt is that it wouldn't. When it comes to other people's lyrics, if the shirt is already printed, they probably might buy it. But the ego of most writers don't care anything about quoting someone else's song. You dealing with a world now that outside of your own friends or fan base, songwriters have NO interest in what other people do. Remember, these are the "glow song" singers. They text WHILE they are talking to you. You think they are going to PAY for a shirt with someone else's words on it? You have not been around these writers very often! LOL!


MAB

 


 


 

Marc-Alan  Barnette

                                                                                                         FALL CLEANING


Happy Sunday everybody. Now that we have had this work getting done on the house for the past three months, we are now putting everything back in it's place. And DOWNSIZING. and I have finally gotten around to going through the dozens of black binders with my THOUSANDS of lyric sheets over the years. And boy do I have a LOT of songs.


I started doing the "teaching by doing" writing sessions in June of 2003. My friend's Cliff and Bev Nelson suggested that I could help their Orange County California NSAI group by having private "songwriting lessons" with them on my visits out there. And boy did I write a lot. At first I was doing everything on Cassette, and then transcribing the lyrics and everything when I got back. There were different "levels" to the appointments. Some, were purely "teaching lessons. " These might be subjects that while interesting might not make for a "reality based pitch." There was "Dead Daddy week" where four out of five appointments were middle aged women who wanted to write songs about their departed fathers. Made them feel better, made me focus what I was doing to show them, and got songs finished, but not a lot can come out of it past there.


The majority of what I teach is how to LOOK AT LIFE AROUND YOU AND FIND THE INTERESTING ELEMENTS, AND REALITY. We always try to make that applicable to most people and usually I think I hit the target pretty well. But there is only so much any one can do, and only so many songs you are ever going to get.


Over the years I have almost all of them on CD's hard drives and back up.And most of the lyrics fill about 30 black binders around the house. Now the time has come to trim all that down. I am going through hundreds upon hundreds of lyric sheets, looking at them, pulling out the ones that I think need to be saved, Tina is scanning those in, and then a lot of them, are going to have to be thrown away. I just can't keep all of them any more.


I am keeping everything from people I have regular contact with, any of you from here, and most all from the tours over the years. But if there are obscure one time only people, non-performers or the teaching songs, I am having to get rid of those. hopefully everyone who I have written with have kept copies of what we did. At least that is what they are supposed to do. 


NEVER LEAVE A WRITING APPOINTMENT WITHOUT A RECORDING OF WHAT YOU HAVE DONE,AND A COPY OF THE LYRIC SHEETS.
If you don't, you may find yourself with no record of anything you have done and will have to start over on your song if it means a lot to you. Most professional writers will trim down fairly often, and get rid of things that no longer have relevance. Trends change, what might be really cool one day might suddenly be politically correct, and you might as well bury some of those. And then a lot of songs are not that good. They are there to help us build skills and move on to other songs. Kevin does this in his contest each year, writing a lot of songs. Out of so many songs, most are just there to toss. The cream needs to rise to the top.

And if you have co-writers, if they don'[t care enough to save them, perform them, pitch them, etc.  then sometimes you have to get rid of those too. If they don't care about it, why should you?


It is kind of fun to look back over some things you have written, remember the time and place you were when you wrote it, who you wrote it with, etc. Fun, for a little while. Then you realize it is just taking up space.


It is OKAY TO CLEAN OUT THE DEAD WOOD! We all love all our songs, all our "children." But some of them are simply "good ideas at the time." Be comfortable with it. Look through what you have written and either pack it away, or donate it to the proper location. Mine shall be the "Davidson County Landfill. 


MAB

OD OldDog

MAB,


That's a good idea to do some "song cleaning" and get rid of some things.  I actually went through most of my two dozen note books and threw away any unfinished ideas that were never good ideas to begin with.  I still need to throw away a dozen or so, mini cassette tapes I have stored in one of the cubboards.  I used to carry a hand held recorder in case I would have an idea while driving; or away from the house.


You talk about a sound that is discusting to listen to, those things sound terrible.   I'm sure all of the idea's were probably just as discusting as well.   My purpose for throwing that stuff out is to hide the evidence from my family, should anything ever happen to the Old Dog and they had to come in and clean the place out.  I'm sure they would hang on to everything for sentimental reasons; but I would hate to ruin my songwriting image with them by having them read and listen to the crap.  


Anyway,  I'd better go throw those tapes away while I'm thinking about it.


OD


 

OD OldDog

Hey Kid,


The Old Dog would like to place an order with you; but you'll have to increase your product line to include underwear.


On the back would read " Big TEX-ASS" ,  on the front "Not Macho, But Some Movement" .   
(get it???   Texass, and "It's Not a Motto, It's A Movement" being changed to: "Not Macho, But Some Movement").  Ha!!! 


Awe Man thats pretty good,  and I came up with that without any help from Budlight.  I'm sure you're shocked.


OD

John Westwood

Happy  Birthday OD..


 

Phillip (phil g.) Grigg

Happy birthday OD!!! And may you have many, many more!!


phil g.

Marc-Alan  Barnette

Morning folks,


Yes, it is the OLD DOGS 97th Birthday today. I first met the Old Dawg, when he came down after reading a bit of what I was writing. He had two CD's that were well produced, but had that "dated" written feel about them. What does that mean anyway? Do you remember your parents music? Do you remember when you felt musically aware and started embracing your own music? This could have been  the rock of the 60's or 70's and your parents were listening to Sinatra and Tony Bennet. Well that is it. Your music sounds like it was written in a different time. The phrasing is older. The point of view of the lyrics are older. You talk about things for your age group, or say things in the way your age group would say them. If you listen to a few songs or artists on television or radio, you see a big difference.


That is "dated."


So OD had that. When he speaks to some of you about sounding that way, HE KNOWS OF WHAT HE SPEAKS. OD was a very intriquing guy to me. He didn't want success, didn't really want anything. Just kind of wanted to be around some other people he enjoyed meeting and talking to. And yes, he is an incredible flirt. I am an incredible flirt and have made a career on it for nearly 35 years. But the reality is he and I are harmless (too damn old to be otherwise now), and don't even want to work that hard. So the "Dog's bark" is a lot worse than his bite. He was just a lot of fun. Great cook, did a bunch of stuff nobody had to ask to do always thought of others.

Great guy. But I knew he always wanted to learn things inside. He wanted to play them off like he didn't but he was interested. So i had him do some song study and watch CMT videos. He found that he was not as out of touch with today's music as he thought and that it was "just a bunch of crap on the radio." There were some instinctive, very well written songs, some really cool people involved in the industry and a really good time intereacting with a lot of these people. He did multiple tours with me always starting and stopping that he was going to do them. He would get very excited about ideas, build up in intensity, and then change his mind.


I knew the kind of person he was, (A wall bouncer) and knew how fleeting that could be. Almost everyone in the music industry is like that. We get great ideas, go charging out to make them happen, then often find (Most of the time too late, after we have spent a fortune) that there are some reasons some of those ideas haven't happened before.  A LOT of what we do are just GOOD IDEAS AT THE TIME.  Just because we don't hear a certain kind of idea on the radio or haven't heard some idea or subject matter before is usually NOT BECAUSE IT IS NOT OUT THERE. It is just NOT EMBRACED BY THE PUBLIC.


So he would do a lot of things. We wrote some really killer songs together. He would feed me some unique information and I would try to organize it the way he was looking for. I think we hit the target most of the time. 


My favorite story was at the Frank Brown festival in 2009. About 10 of the Rampers and wives came down and we did three days of writing and hanging. At night they would come to the different shows I was doing and I was constantly trying to think up different songs to play. This one VFW hall way out in the woods, had an average age of the audience at about 80 years old. OD was a youth in this place. There were two really good looking girls, dressed hot, and seemed, well.... out of place. They were getting ready to leave and I stopped my show and asked them where they were going. They said 'We wanna go dance..." So I pulled out this song that OD, Norm and I had written called "Did Yo Mama Show you How to Dance Like That?" The girl's stopped in their tracks and dances a while on that song. 


Later I found out that one of them were the local hooker in the area. Was funny as Hell, stopping a hooker in mid dance.


There have been a lot of those. OD running out of gas with Becky. OD fixing all the loose bricks on the house. Always a ton of OD stories. He popped up in weird places. Came all the way to Boston to hang out with Catfish Dave and Matt. Gone to TExas with the Kid. And the thing is he never thinks of just himself. Always trying to figure out how to do something for others.


One of the songs we wrote, Daddy's Upright Bass,  was a song he started with Greg Powers, just trying to help Greg out. They brought me in when they got stuck. It was the story of Bill Black, the original bassist for Elvis, and the bass Bill used to play. He heard stories of Bill's daughter and how she found out where the bass ended up. With Paul McCartney in England. Was a great story. So we wrote that. OD let me record it the "old style" way in the studio. We have some great recordings. I'm still struggling with how to get it on my upcoming CD. Trying to keep the songs down, because there is only so much space. But he might make it on after all. I'm a sucker for an Elvis song.


OD can always be counted on here to have a little liquid encouragement and say what is on his mind. Sometimes he gets a little intense but there is no one with a better heart. And OD has a pretty huge one. No body like him.


So thanks, OD for being here. You are a teasure to us all.


HAPPY BIRTHDAY MY FRIEND!


MAB



Kevin Emmrich

Great write-up on the old dog, MAB.  Happy super-duper birthday to Mr. Harris.

RiDawn Rae

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, OD!!  You certainly have been helpful AND entertaining to me, and I am so happy to get to know you, even if only here on the Ramp 'til you make your next trek to Nashville!!


Thank you, Marc, for sharing some of your OD stories -- they made it feel like we're having a birthday party right here on the Ramp!!


(P.S.)  I'm certain 'we womens' know you two are absolutely harmless in your flirtations.  You just like to make us feel special! Wink   Nothing wrong with that in my book!  Hope everyone has a great week -- I might not be able to be on here much this week, but will be with everyone in spirit (and 'yes' OD, that kind of spirit too)!  xo

RiDawn Rae

I recently had a T-Shirt made for the song Marc and I wrote "They're Just Boobs" and am having the proceeds donated to the Breast Cancer Awareness Program, via CafePress.com.  I'm excited to 'show' the shirt and our upcoming Commodore show in November!  There are no legal hassles with this shirt, thankfully.  As for the painting I did for Marc .... we had talked about me doing paintings directly for songwriters wanting to use their song title as the basis of my painting, and with the title somewhere on it.  I did an experiment with "Tables & Chairs" for Marc, and personally, I love it!  It's very simplistic, and it conveys the feeling of the song without looking totally depressing.  I'm very happy with it and glad Marc likes it since it was my gift to him to thank him for all the wonderful things he does for me musically, and for his friendship.  I, however, know I would be a hit-and-misser trying to do that kind of concept for money.  I am much happier being able to paint what comes out of me, putting it out there, and not worrying whether someone loves it as much as I do, LOL!  Hopefully I will make a bit of $$ being true to that revelation. Just don't want to stress over it.  I love hearing what everyone's doing.  There's so much positive, creative energy going on here! Smile

Norman Harris

Happy Birthday Cousin OD!  I will have a glass of the Talisker, waiting at home, in your name.  May you have many more.


Hungry to get started on some collaborations and even put started a song this weekend and wanted to get some work done on a song for Gwyneth.  Unfortunately I've been taking it easy as I had the second cataract operation last Wednesday.  Again, I felt like the baby in the group (2 years ago, they were talking about WWII and their experiences and were calling me the baby!!).  This time I was with a mad Italian and a really great guy who was already blind in one eye and worried it might not be successful in his other.  I must admit, Thursday morning I thought it hadn't worked.  I was almost as blind in my right eye as before.  It's like having Vaseline spread across your eye in thicker and thicker layers.  It was still there.   I was sitting talking over a project later that day with 3 students when I realised I could read what was on the T shirt with the 'new' eye (it was that bad!).  What a feeling.  Over the next couple of days the mist cleared and it's now as good as the other. So good, I can read the read the small numbers flashing on a gaming machine across a very large bar.  What am I doing in a bar on a Monday?  Waiting for someone, honest.


It's only now that I can see 180 degrees (or thereabouts) just how much this was subconsciously affecting my creativity work and music-wise.  Having just said that I better get the finger out and start producing.


Apologies for blabbing on but I think I am back to the old me. I mean   


Cheers


Nod

Marc-Alan  Barnette

Always great to hear from you Nod. Put on a pair of dark sunglasses, shake your head back and forth, use a cane, and tell women you are wanting to read "Braille T-Shirts". Maybe RiDawn will send you a "There just boobs' shirt printed in braile. That would be a big seller in the UK!


 

RiDawn Rae

I'll get started on those right away ... NOT!! LOL Smile


 


 

Eddie  Rhoades

YO  RiDawn,  How about a tee shirt that says:


Florida has mountains
You're looking at them


Eddie R

RiDawn Rae

Hee hee, Eddie! Looks like you guys need to switch to pant slogans instead of shirts Wink Lol!!


 

Norman Harris


Always great to hear from you Nod. Put on a pair of dark sunglasses, shake your head back and forth, use a cane, and tell women you are wanting to read "Braille T-Shirts". Maybe RiDawn will send you a "There just boobs' shirt printed in braile. That would be a big seller in the UK!


 


LOL!  Sounds good to me and I also think they would be successful. The Braille could match the famous Paps of Jura shown below.  Cousin OD, there's a nice malt from this island! 


Justin  Parker

Happy Birthday to the Old Dawg, finally in the triple digits!!! Glad you made this far ole' brother, serously hope it was a good one!


NEVER LEAVE A WRITING APPOINTMENT WITHOUT A RECORDING OF WHAT YOU HAVE DONE,AND A COPY OF THE LYRIC SHEETS.


-MAB I wish I had read this about two months ago, I finally got a writing appointment with a VERY busy local artist, we were firing on all cylindars and the writing was going great, however (through no fault of the artist, maybe just my own nerves) I was scribbling, scratching, flipping pages, (I don't use my laptop in cowrites, i take home and translate) but I was very rushed, something deep down in my gut new I was doing something wrong. Long story short we completed the whole song, however I walked out of the house with about half of what we'd written KNOWING I did wrong. I had the song in bits and pieces on all different pages, and flat out was just sloppy with it. I felt I'd done the artist a disservice to their time, and for me it was a professional embarrasment in a way. Needless to say, the song pretty much fell flat, and that appointment was a wash. It was no good. I don't mind admitting my mistake, if it helps someone else. THE MAB IS ALWAYS RIGHT! I had egg on my face with that one... don't be like me. MAKE SURE IT'S DOWN IN FULL BEFORE YOU SAY YOUR GOODBYES!!!! LOL


Now MAB, gotta question,


I'm working with an artist on a song I wrote that is a bit lengthy, poking at the 4:02 mark, per the radio station the optimal time they want to shoot for is 3:23 we are experimenting with shortest intro possible, turning the bridge around asap, cutting tags, trimming all the fat we can and it's still riding the 3:42 mark. Mind you this question DOES pertain to a song that WILL get radio play, this is confirmed already. My question is what matters more in radio "the time rules" or do you think a song submitted over 3:30-3:50 PROVIDED it's a strong song people identify with, (which I hope the all are LOL) but does radio allow leeway for songs that are requested by a large audience to be a little longer??? Are there any set in stone rules? Any information you could provide would be GREATLY appreciated, the kids in a quandry.

Kevin Emmrich

...I'm working with an artist on a song I wrote that is a bit lengthy, poking at the 4:02 mark, per the radio station the optimal time they want to shoot for is 3:23 we are experimenting with shortest intro possible, turning the bridge around asap, cutting tags, trimming all the fat we can and it's still riding the 3:42 mark. Mind you this question DOES pertain to a song that WILL get radio play, this is confirmed already. My question is what matters more in radio "the time rules" or do you think a song submitted over 3:30-3:50 PROVIDED it's a strong song people identify with, (which I hope the all are LOL) but does radio allow leeway for songs that are requested by a large audience to be a little longer??? Are there any set in stone rules? Any information you could provide would be GREATLY appreciated, the kids in a quandry.


I am not MAB, but here is one thing to look at.  (I am assuming it is V-C-V-C-Bridge-C format, will possible pre-Choruses thrown in).    What is the length of your first verse?  Is it two 4-line stanzas?  If so, maybe verse two can only be one 4-line stanza.  That's right, cut that 2nd verse in half.  Chances are if your 2nd verse is the same length as verse 1, maybe you are repeating yourself somewhere.   Might not work in this instance, but look for that in future tunes.