Welcome! Use this forum to ask questions and learn about the inner workings of the music business from Marc-Alan Barnette. In this forum, you can expect straight talk!
No. For a few reasons. First of all the type of writing I do requires that I get in a "writer's zone." You find this among professional writers. It consists of sitting in a room for 25 or thirty minutes not saying a word. This allows us to get into a real kind of hypnotic form of concentration, where we visualize the subject, find grooves, etc. It is not unusual to find two or three writers doing this and then all play the things they are working on. Sometimes you end up taking one from column "A" one from column "B" Etc. That doesn't lend itself to phone calls. Sitting in a room while the phone on the other end says nothing is not that conducive to mood.
The other reason is that I am very firm on the idea I am not being paid to write. I am being paid to teach process, much of that means speed. Most of the people I deal with come from out of town and have a short amount of time to get things accomplished. So being able to think on your feet with some real ability to get at the most important thoughts and lines are essential.
I also am often in some form of appointment and in the time I could do something on the phone I could handle a dozen e-mails, review songs, and get things written. I am just wired that way. The reason I can do these forums and do my other appointments is because I have delegated certain things. I know when to let the other person have their own time to think and absorb things I am talking about. And when to move on.
The thing I have done to some success is online co-writes. But I do them in a different way as well. People send me around 3 ideas. This can be hooks, titles, ideas, lyrics, melodies. But I prefer senarios. And types of songs. If they can give me an idea of the type of song they are looking to write, I generally can get in the groove. After I pick something that hits me, I will usually work on a verse and chorus idea. Then I do a simple work tape and MP3 that to them. If they like that direction we see where it goes from there. They usually work on the second verse, bridge, refine, etc. and send things back to me. That can take as much or little time as it takes to correspond back and forth. I do this when I have some down time which is about nine minutes a year. Just kidding.
At present I have probably five or six of these going. Most are finished and waiting to hear if the people want demos on them or are going to do something on their own. One has the lyrics finished and I have to do the music and one is just an idea that I have to do.
Most of these people I have already met and worked with before. I almost never do it with someone I don't know. Like Nashville, everything is a referal. One of the only times I have ever done that was the song, "Where Have the Good Guys Gone" which is the one we wrote here. The idea started with Gary. I took the general form and put it out for ideas which a lot of people chimed in. When I had what I felt was a good start, I laid down a guitar vocal feel and verse chorus. I sent that to everyone who e-mailed me to make the MP3 easier on me. I respond much easier than I initiate. Everyone liked it so we went from there on lyrics. After we got where we liked it, I did another version of the whole thing. When that was done and they liked it, I went to the Chiggers and recorded a "real guitar vocal demo,. where everyone could hear the harmonies and I could concentrate on the guitar and vocals seperatley.
Then we ended up doing the full demo which I produced and two weeks ago turned into my song pluggers. Now we see what happens.
Basically everything that I do is in a step by step basis. I hope that answers your questions.
Spring is just around the corner - now is the perfect time to treat yourself to advancing your songwriting skills. And…all from the comfort of your living room at your own pace and schedule…saving you travel costs.
I first offered this Internet writing lesson during the holiday season and couldn't fit everyone in! It worked out better than I had expected…but, don't take my word for it, I can give you referrals if you'd like. One of the songs written – “Don't Know What I Want,” turned out so well, we actually did a full demo and it is now being pitched!!
Here is how it works:
Email me 1-3 ideas you have for a song you'd like to write. Send any lyrics you have, music (MP3 tracks) and / or scenarios (e.g. “guy and girl meet, fall in love, then…) These don't have to be complete or finished. In fact, this is a learning and creative process. However, the more details you can provide the better.
I will take your ideas and create a framework as a start of the song (verse, chorus, etc.)
You will be sent an MP3 of a rough guitar vocal of the song as a first tangible step.
We will continue to work back and forth via email to share ideas and continue to develop the song.
The finished product will give you a co-written song along with a final MP3 guitar vocal of your song.
Sorry to everyone I couldn't get to at the end of last year. My travel schedule allows me to offer this until the end of April on a first come first serve basis. The cost for the entire “lesson” is only $150 (and yes…I do accept credit cards and PayPal.).
Again, sorry I couldn't get to everyone last time, but am happy to be able to offer it now.
I look forward to working with you and can be reached at:
That is so weird. I started reading that and thought "SOB! Someone is doing the same thing I do on MY SITE!" LOL! Okay.It's Me. I didn't want to actually post that on here but since you did I will explain. About three times a year, when school is in session, between vacations, etc. my business slows down in Nashville and due to weather and things I don't travel that much.
Many people are always asking about my services. A few years ago I started offering my "Write up" services, which is a face to face co-writing session that is a teaching lesson with a practical application effect. People bring me ideas, senarios, melodies, etc. and I give it the "Nashville treatment" while showing them process things that will help them in all their writing.
I usually do this face to face becuase the time factor in Nashville is essential. Most people, particularly those who visit from out of town, only have a few days to get many things accomplished, the most needing to be co-writing.And since they are not known, it is hard to get the co-writing sessions that are so essential. So I do it but am paid as a 'personal trainer"aspect.
Those of you who participated in the "WHTGGG" experience have seen this. I collect info and give a guitar vocal verse/chorus pattern to see if that is the direction. Then we trade off and see where it goes. The result is a workable song within a day and we can talk about the next step after that. In over 730 songs in the past three years, with around 400 people around the US, it has resulted in raising songwriting awareness, teaching craft by doing, opened doors for people with pluggers and publishers, demos, and in the case of 85 songs, they are being pitched by several Nashville publishers and pluggers.
Two examples of how it works are from the last two days.Monday was a 40'ish woman from the Boston area who does folk and bluegrass festivals. On her shows she has too much.. you guessed it.Ballads. After taking her around the town and going over ground rules and we settled into work on her song. The senario she gave me was she wanted a "Summer bluegrass song, that would talk about fun, be a good opener for the festivals she plays during the spring/summer. The result, Beach Blankets, Bonfires, and Bluegrass, gave her just that. It took about one hour and 10 minutes and we had a pretty cool song. Now it is her job to absorb it, look at it objectivly, get critiques and work it before she gets back with me.
Yesterday was a 6 piece country rock band out of Toledo Ohio. They are very popular in their area, yet don't have that much original material. And the lead singer has been coming here for years but is not that strong a writer so he hasn't been able to get as far as he would like. Again,
after an hour or so of talking rules of Nashville, we setteled into the work. They wanted an opening song, in the vein of Montgomery Gentry. A party song that could be used at the main bar they played. They gave me names of several of the "characters that could be seen around them each weekend, some of the hotties that followed the band, (one who was with them, man it is easy to write when you have some beautiful babe sitting next to you) and in an hour we had Saturday Ride and Rodeo's Bar and Grill. The result in both cases are why I love what I do. They each get something cool for their uses, we all get more songs, if they are demoed properly I think I can get them pitched. If nothing else, we are all better for it, and nine people this week understand writing better now than they did last week. I will post their comments soon.
So what I do is take information, types of songs and give it the best I can. For examples, you can go to my listening room. Those are all write ups.
Ande, the way to start is just send me some ideas and lets see where we go.
Good to hear from you and thank you for wanting to try this. I just sent you a private message but since we are doing this for the education of others as well, I like to comment here just to let other people know what is going on.
You sent me a title that first of all, I have heard quite a bit, but also that I have just written about a month ago. Since I have already done it and recorded it, I wouldn't want to write another one. Also in the lyric of your song idea, are many ideas, including another song I have written a few years back and actually has been pitched quite a bit. But as I told you privately, one of the problems with it is that a major artist recently had a hit with the same Title. Even though mine was written several years before it and out on the market, it rendered mine unworkable. That is one of the difficulties we have when it comes to copyright protection. We just can't copy right a title or an idea. And these things are written all the time. So what happens is that yours just goes into the archives and you move on to other songs.
One of the aspects of the "write ups" that I do is that I have to pick ideas, path ways, lyrics, melodies, etc that are different than the ones that I hear a lot or write myself. Having written 731 songs in three years, 20 in the last 11 days, it is going to be hard to find subjects and pathways that I haven't already mined. Which is part of the learning curve in Nashville. There are 500 songs a day written here and it gets much harder the higher the level you get.
As you know, I ask for no money unless we get something that really works for both of us. If you can just keep sending ideas, I will try to find something that works. And believe me, I don't keep any of these ideas. I have enough trouble keeping up with my own.
thanks for the explanation
I have many more ideas, as you know I sent you another one
We'll consider it, If that doesn't work I have many more
If you're game we'll keep trying till we find something really strong
might as well attempt to write something that could fall in the top 5% of our catalogs
That is good. I only want the best ideas. I am in Fla. and will look at the "After You Lose" one. I would like about three or four ideas to look at. If you could provide a description of what kind of song you are looking for, that would help.
By the way, WHTGGG got pitched to Jo Dee Mesina today. Two in a row. Congrats to all.
Glad you like it. I do too.The first thing is to live with it a while. Play with it. Play it for people to get critiques. Sending it to NSAI is always a good idea. You want different perspectives on anything you do. Since I write so many I leave it up to the co-writers to get feedback because I am always into the next appointment, the next song. A decent guitar vocal demo should be done. Playing it up against other songs in your catalogue. It is all about perspective and if it sticks with you.
If you are wanting a song to be pitched, a full demo has to be done. This is always money. Since I do a majority of the heavy lifting creatively, and I have moved to this town and existed so the co-writers don't have to, they pay the cost of the demo. We have multiple sessions going on all the time and it can be added to one of those. Around every month or so, I turn in new finished songs to Sharp Objects, where they make decisions on pitching. I will make suggestions as to certain songs. But often I stay out of that process, since I am not very strong at it.
If you do like the song, getting me a check any time helps me keep moving. As far as new songs, it is going to be a few weeks before I can do anything. Tin Pan week is my Super Bowl week and much of my entire year's travels are all determined here. I am booked pretty much every day for the rest of April so I am not doing any more long distance things for a while. I would really prefer that people come into town, learn about the business and write these things face to face. But when I have the opportunity I will do some of the long distance things.
I enjoyed it and hope it passes the audition.
So Here's an inside sneak peek to the write up process on this song
First I wrote Marc Alan Barnette, "I wanna do a write up with you."
Then I sent him several lyrics, one at a time.
He passed on the first few and I thought were really good.
Last November I went to San Antonio and watched my daughters high school football team lose at play offs (she's a cheerleader) I was there on the field after the game helping my wife with her photo equipment and was amazed by the emotions of the moment, my wife captured some incredible photos of players hugging each other consoling each other and crying. One of her photos made the front page of our local paper.
then this lyric lept out at me
After You Lose
By Ande Rasmussen
The clock ran out of time
And the other team won
The last game of the season
Their play off dreams were done
I saw near grown men crying on the grass
Players hugging teammates, friends, moms, and dads
And now you have an important choice to choose
It’s the one you make after you lose
Are you gonna stay down on the ground
Or go home and kick your dog
Are you gonna make a fist
And shake it up at God
Or take your hurt get back to work
Use those emotions as the reason
To be better not bitter you never were a quitter
To be better stronger faster next season
Some seniors will play in college
But for most this is it
I'm proud of each one of you
Though you fell behind you never quit
And now you have an important choice to choose
It’s the one you make after you lose
Are you gonna stay down on the ground
Or go home and kick your dog
Are you gonna make a fist
And shake it up at God
Or take your hurt get back to work
Use those emotions as the reason
To be better not bitter you never were a quitter
To be better stronger faster next season
And now you have an important choice to choose
It’s the one you make after you lose
I sent it to Marc Alan he commented this and rewrote it
MABs comment
Ande,
This is the general work idea on "After you Lose." Essentially I took elements of what you said in your lyric but broadened it somewhat to encompass more than football. I kind of take things from today's headlines, layoffs, office rage, cursing God, blaming others, etc. And hooked it with the central theme in the chorus instead at the end of the verses.
The way I do all these "write ups" are demonstrate by doing how Nashville writers approach subject matter. We are constantly asked for "Life affirming" inspirational story songs. That is how I approached it. The groove is somewhat Lonestar and somewhat Rascal Flatts, but also could be Keith Urban or any one of today's country rock singers.
As always, nothing is set in stone and all is open to correction and interpretation, I expect my co-writers to go back, feel it out, make suggestions, critiques and go from there. As Tin Pan is on us, I am probably going to be besieged starting next week on into May.But I will be checking e-mails all the time and are listening to what you might say. Please let me know what you think and if we are in the right direction.
Good to hear from you. I haven't called back because I am always in some form of appointment and e-mails work best for me.
Let me know,
MAB
Here's the final lyric
AFTER YOU LOSE
MAB / RASMUSSEN 3-27-08
Last game of the season
As our team went down in flames
The clocked ticked off the seconds
Watched our playoff dreams all fade
There were grown men crying on the grass
Players, students, Mom’s and Dad’s
Coach Swinson called us to the side
Said hold your head up tonight
Chorus
Cause you can stay down on the ground
Go home and lay in bed
Make a fist and curse God’s name
Or get back up instead
Be bitter or a quitter, let it get to you
But you have to live with how you choose
After you lose
Ten years at my first job
Never missed a day of work
Today that pink slip in my mailbox
Made me want to make that foreman hurt
But before I headed for the office
With hatred in my soul
I thought back to that ice cold night
All those years ago
Bridge
They’re more down’s than ups in this planet we call home
Sometimes you take more hits than you can stand
But it’s the way that you come out on the other side
That’s the true measure of a man
Very cool you did that. Thank you.I enjoyed the experience very much. I hope it turned out like you wanted it to. The next steps have to be demos. I think you should always get at least a guitar vocal on everything so you can have perspective on the song. Then, if the song is to be pitched, you need to do full demos. You just always have to decide how strong the song is for you. As we did in WHTGGG, now you see multiple pitches and opportunities for the song.
You were missed at the Ramp Bash, but were talked about. Hope you can make it next time.
Shelly thanks you for working so hard, putting our song out and being a great addition to these forums.
A small update on our efforts. Was re-reading this thread and really appreciate your efforts helping me explain what I do. Thank you. I wanted to let you know I still like that song and hope some time we can proceed with a demo. In order to get these songs to the different levels we have to have, we have to have the professional demos on them to best present our work.
To give you an idea of the process from there, I work with a guy from San Diego quite often. He makes about 6 trips a year to town. He was here in June, we wrote five songs in three days (Two with Jules) and then went back. I gave him work tapes on each one. He listened quite a bit to all of them over the month, played them for other people, including Chuck Cannon. He got back with me about two weeks ago and we dicided to do a full demo on one of them.
Last Tuesday we did the tracks on the song. Thus, we did the vocals and mixed it. I turned it in with five other new songs to my song pluggers at Sharp Objects. They have their "new song listening days" on Friday. It started being pitched yesterday.
That is how I prefer to do things. I like the co-writers to get then listened to, get other info, think about what they need for their catalogues, then get with me on what to do next. I review them and make sure we should continue forward.
Now there is another side. Right now I am working with another guy who is wanting to do a demo on the song we wrote three weeks ago. I am having to tell him that while I think the song is a good one, I don't think it warrents the expense of a full demo because it is a ballad and unless he just wants it for himself, there is not much of a chance having it get legs in the industry. So I don't just automatically want to demo every song I write.
That is the reality we live in.
